Why do I need wire?

[perchjerker]

Hi guys

I am setting up my salmon program after a long layoff.

I am turning my attention to my dipsy setups.

Right now I have 2 8ft dipsy rods with PowerPro 65lb test and Diawa 47lc reels.

This setup as worked fine for steelies on Erie.

I just purchased 2 more like new 47lc's off a swap board.

I do have 2 Cabelas 10ft dipsy rods that I am going to put the reels on.

I am thinking about trying copper on them, or on the shorter rods if thats a better choice.

I have read the threads on wire and I do appreciate the thoughts in those threads.

I think these will only see occasional use, but I dont really know.

Other than the fleas, what advantages are there to wire over PowerPro?

I know guys who swear by it, so I am sure its worth it.

Then theres the tip, Twilli or Torpedo?

And what line should I get, I see Blood Run is recommended, I am not sure, and dont know what test. Where is the best place to buy this online?

thanks again for your continued help...

[SUPERTRAMP]

Wire on the dipsey rods will get you a little deeper than Power Pro, but both are better than Mono. I use both on the MC2, I use the wire for deep divers and Power Pro on the high divers. The biggest thing is these are only dipsey presentations, my riggers are all mono and I use Lead core and copper line rigs for my wide spreads, Lead down to 45 ft and copper to 90 ft depending on length of the line, I also have been known to add a dive bomb to my rigs to get more depth.

[Line Dancin]

I have both. I like my wire for getting deep. I tend to use my braid divers more for walleye with lite bit slide divers and in early spring shallow water fishing. I like the torpedo divers wire. If it does get a kink it doesnt break like the other brands. It is a little more expensive but i have lost less gear with it than anything else i have tried in wire. Personally if it was me and you dont have long coppers or lead and have the braid divers already i would look at setting the long lines up. As far as tips for wire. I have tried the different one and ended with the torpedo tips, which i like by far the best. They are similar the aftcos at 65 bucks a piece and have held up just fine

edit:

Here is a link to the wire i am using

https://www.torpedodivers.com/scart/product_details.asp?ItemNum=M0010

[KJ pluggin]

I noticed you mentioned copper wire... Copper is not the type of wire your looking for to run divers. The wire you want to use is 30# stainless wire. Copper is primarily used on planer boards, and run the same as leadcore. You will also want to have the wire on the shorter rods if you are planning to run multiple diver per side.

[Pioneer]

Ditto on what Kyle said. I run 2 divers a side with 8's on the inside and 10's on the outside, works great. I got away from braid divers and don't really know why because people catch a ton of fish on braid but I love wire. Puts alot of fish in the box for me. Be careful of kinks in the wire. I run roller rods but others run tungsten guides and work just as well.

[JWheeler]

Curious, does wire really dive deeper than braid?

I too have heard that wire puts a lot of fish in the box. Braid is not stretch and a thin diameter, thinner than that of wire I would think. But have heard mention that the "hum" of the wire gets the fish. I don't have wire (yet) and just curious

[SeaCatMich]

Your Daiwa 47lc reels are not going to be very good for copper as they will not let you put much on them. Copper takes about twice the space of leadcore on a reel. A 47lc with backing is max'd at 5 to 6 colors of lead (150-180') which means only 70-90' of copper. The level wind on the 47lc is also too narrow to handle the knots needed when copper is attached to the backing and leader.

If you want to run copper, you're going to need bigger reels . I run my 300 coppers on Penn 895LC digital line counter reels and Cabelas 8' large guide rods. Lots of guys run the Okuma 55 size reels in various model lines and the Okuma leadcore/copper rods have got very good reviews too.

I found deploying copper without getting nasty bird nests on the reel to be a challenge. After lots of good advise on the boards I don't have many issues now. It must be deployed slowly (pulling line off the reel a foot or two at a time by hand) and the best advice I got was to keep the rod tip in the water until the leader plus 75' or more of the copper is in the water. Even then you have to keep the rod tip low and not let the spool over rev as the rest of the line is deployed. It definitely takes patience compared to other presentations.

I have pairs of both braid (50# Power Pro) and 30# Wire (Mason 7 strand & Torpedo Diver 19 strand) outfits for my divers. The last three seasons the wire has gotten 2-3 times as many hits. I run the wire on the inside rods (Talora roller 9') with the diver on 1 to 1.5. The PP (10' rods) are set on 2 or 3 to run out farther from the boat and I vary the amount of line depending on how deep I want the presentation to be. I will often start with one of each out with them both set to be low divers and let the fish tell me if they have a preference -- most of the time it is the wire they want. Fighting the fish on either PP or wire is a blast as you feel every move they make on the other end.

[perchjerker]

ok as was mentioned I should have said stainless wire, not copper.

thats how much I know about this...

On the reel capacity, if the wire is thicker than say, 65lb PowerPro what advantage does it have other than flea resistance? I can fit plenty of 65lb PowerPro on my 47's. So the wire must be much thicker.

I looked on the Torpedo site linked to, it does not give the wire diameter.

I do have 2 leadcore setups on Penn 330's for that.

I am not doubting anything being stated, just trying to understand if its worth it to me to use it or to just stick with PowerPro setups.

[ChampionShip]

Your 47s will hole more than enough wire. Our high divers are braid and deep divers are mags with wire on 9' talora roller rods with swivel tips. I like the different lines in the event of a tangle- makes it easier to sort out what's what. Agreed on the wire- watch for kinks- that stuff is pretty much bulletproof but I have had to take 30-40' of it off and reterminate about 10 times this year.

[Hazzard]

Your 47s will hole more than enough wire. Our high divers are braid and deep divers are mags with wire on 9' talora roller rods with swivel tips. I like the different lines in the event of a tangle- makes it easier to sort out what's what. Agreed on the wire- watch for kinks- that stuff is pretty much bulletproof but I have had to take 30-40' of it off and reterminate about 10 times this year.

Champ is a expert on tangles. Most of them involve copper not wire divers.

I run the sealine 47's, malin 7 strand 30# and Jr's wire dipsy rods 8 1/2 in and 9 1/2 out. The Jr's rods have tungston guides and no roller or twilli tip. Im fishing 6-8 weekends a year and this setup just finished it's 3rd year with out any problems.

[perchjerker]

ok, I understand Ryan was speaking of copper when he was saying the 47's were not big enough.

[fishy1]

I have run both wire divers and braid divers and now just fish the braid. I have checked the diving ability of both using my gtm unit and there is no considerable difference in depth obtained using the same diver setups on both,with all things being equal,braid is easier to use ,doesn't kink and you dont have to use roller rods or twillie tips, just my 2 cents worth.

[mattmishler]

Nope you need 2 mono high slide divers, 2 braid low slide divers, 2 high wires and 2 low wires.

[Line Dancin]

the other thing that i like about braid over wire is wire is like a razor blade in the water. If you get an unruly fish that decides to go out to the side under the wire then back up its gone no tangle just cut line. Braid will mess up the mono but you will at least have a chance to get the fish to the boat.

[Rodm]

Nope you need 2 mono high slide divers, 2 braid low slide divers, 2 high wires and 2 low wires.

Is this your usual spreed? Or what youliketo have on board to chose from?

[1mainiac]

I have 2 8ft roller rods with wire 2 10ft roller rods with wire 2 10ft braid rods and 2 9ft mono divers that I primarily run slide divers on. Hands down the 10ft roller rods are the most fun to catch fish on. We call them Angry Dogs because I explained to one of the guys who had never fished wire before it is like having a big angry dog on a chain when fighting a fish. After he caught a 19lb king on one he calls the rods Angry Dogs. There really is not much difference in depth with wire vs braid maybe a few ft deeper with wire because wire itself is heavier. However there is a big difference in rods as long as the wire stays in the roller the guides will not add drag like eyelets will. So ever tug goes right to the reel and rod seat and you will feel the difference.

[SeaCatMich]

The 47lc reels will be fine for wire. I'm guessing these are the older Great Lakes 47LC reels (all black, no chrome/silver trim). They or the newer SeaLine SG47LC or LCA will be fine for 1,000' of 30# stainless wire -- with a mono/flouro leader the 1,000' will fill the spool almost completely without any backing. You will want to coat the spool with either electrical tape or some mono to prevent the wire from slipping on the spool though.

I started out with SG47LC reels for my wire with Heartland rods with Twillie Tips. After hearing rave reviews on the Shimano Tekota 600LC reels, I bought a pair of them along with 7' Talora roller rods. The 600LCs are nice and smooth, but for nearly twice the cost of the Daiwas, I can't say that I would do it again. Both the SG47LC and the 600LC are 4.2:1 retrieve ratios and both have good drags. The roller rod did make it a lot easier to use the wire though. I didn't damage the Heartland rods with the wire at all, but like Jim/1Maniac I can sure tell there is a lot less resistance with the rollers. I later upgraded to the 9' Talora rollers with the swivel tip -- very nice wire rods (pricey too, but I got a bargain on CraigsList).

The Great Lakes 47LC are actually faster than the newer SG models with a 5.1:1 retrieve ratio. I used them as my half core reels for years mainly because of the better speed for clearing lines.

[Turfwrench]

You don't really need to run wire divers.......but you certainly will miss out on a lot of fun. I run 2 wire divers and they are the most exciting rods on the boat and certainly have added to the fish count.

[mattmishler]

Is this your usual spreed? Or what youliketo have on board to chose from?

Who's not running 8 divers? No it's what we have to choose from. It I had to pick 4 it would be the low wires and high slide divers

[Paulywood]

I run the 19 strand Torpedo wire on 7' Shimano Talora rods and with the Tekota 600 lc reels as low divers and 30# Power Pro on 9' Shimano TDr rods with Tekota's and have to say that I fish my wire rods more than my braid rods. I know that the fleas might not seem like a big deal, but sometimes they are almost unbearable. You have to pull rods constantly to clean them off or they can bind up the eyelets and cause you to lose fish. I also tried the Twilli Tips and Torpedo Tips and like the Torpedo's much better. There is a lot less resistance. I also tried a cheap Eagle Claw roller rod and almost threw it overboard on the first trip. If you are going to run wire go with the tungsten guides, a new tip, or a good roller rod. I have tried all of them except the tungsten rods and IMO you don't want to screw around with cheap roller rods.

[SeaCatMich]

... I also tried a cheap Eagle Claw roller rod and almost threw it overboard on the first trip...

You triggered a memory which I haven't had in a very long time.

Way back in the early '70s was actually the first time that I tried wire. If I remember correctly the reel was a Penn 309 and I know the rod was an Eagle Claw 8' with rollers and a wooden handle. It was so bulky and heavy The line was not forgiving at all and kinked a few times. Ran it down the chute with a lead ball on a sinker release. Never got a hit on it and pretty sure we only tried it on one or two trips and went and got some manual downriggers. If I remember right we bought it at Armstrong's in Whitehall and he took it back in as credit toward the pair of Riviera 300 downriggers and a pair of rigger rods/reels.

[Rodm]

Who's not running 8 divers? No it's what we have to choose from. It I had to pick 4 it would be the low wires and high slide divers

I've seen some crazy set ups. I have a friend who waited way to long to buy riggers. We still joke about some of the spreads he used. He caught some big fish and had some prize worthy tangles.

[1mainiac]

As for the Eagle Claw roller rods ran mine a couple of times and sold them at the swap meet. As for tangles how about 3 guys running 8 rods and getting a triple all of us fighting fish when I realize no one is driving and we ran our own gear over. Worst of all it was only 1 fish that tangled in 2 other rods. Had to put the boat in neutral and get the cutters out but we did land the 1 fish somehow. I had a 10 color tied in my anchor which was a bow mount anchor.

[mriversinco]

On my boat, I run wire on at least one rod every time and often 2. When side by side with braid I get about 50% more fish on the wire. Don't know why, but it seems to out fish the other setups so I'm not going back to no wire. I would say to try one setup and see how it does but be prepared to put some more wire together.

[perchjerker]

Great replies!!

many thanks!!

I think I will wait and get dedicated rods and not put tips on my existing dipsy rods for this.

Ryan, yes they are the old all black 47's.