1mainiac

In all honesty I fished my butt off this last spring and only got skunked 1 time but only had a few trips before June that landed more than 1 fish. I will admit much of my early fishing was debugging a new used boat but still at cost of gas and missing out on all my inland lake fishing was sad. I spent every spare hour on the boat or setting it up this year I will be hitting the river till early May and then pounding the Gills thru June. My only plans for the big boat will be the handfull of tournies I plan on fishing. I am not being pessimistic I love the early fishing but gas is not cheap and I really missed out on my inland fishing. When I realize I did not even catch 50 panfish this last season and did not even go to my trout lake one time all season I have to make a few changes. So I am gonna go back to my old scheduale and pretty much stay off the big lake till early June or later.

Log book is a great idea my son got me one I will try and fill it out this year.

when my flashers and cannon balls come up with bite marks on them you kinda realize there are times Salmon will bite anything. Tad Pole mentioned the Budweiser lure I knew a guy years ago that had treble hooks on a beer can and he said he caught fish with it.

Looks cool mike will they work on a probe like my depth raider?

Nice Terry glad you guys had a good day

Well the sheeple have voted for change so here it comes No more freedom no more Guns no more jobs no more money. Just a couple hundred million happy idiots who are going to have a hard time surviving when they figure out anyone under 250k a year is now a peasant in the new kingdom and they are also working on ending term limits so BO can be the first king of Amerika.

Robert I don't know the area you are fishing so that makes it tough to give good advise and all of us here vary somewhat in our approach. This is why I suggested to Mike to put up the scenaro section which allows us to put in conditions and locations and get back ideas from others as to how they would fish them. As my uncle told me 40 years ago a aggressive Salmon will bite a old tennis shoe with hooks in it and nothing will make some of them bite. This is still somewhat true we run big bright loud baits to pick off the aggressive fish and they pretty much all work then we run small quiet easy snacks in stealth mode to try and get the others to bite with mixed success. What works well one day may not another and even from hour to hour as conditions change. A setup you can't keep in the water at 6 am might not get touched after 6:30 for the rest of the day. I really don't think any of us know for sure what is going to happen when we leave the dock we have ideas and plans those who have the best success adapt faster and have more options. This why most of our boats look like porqpines with a zillion rods sticking out every where so we can make changes fast and try and find what makes them bite today. Where else can you see a 1000 dollar boat with 5 to 10 g in fishing equipment I have as much invested in fishing gear as I do in my boat and will still end up buying more. I would suggest you consider going out on a couple of charters and see what they do ask questions you will find most charters have very solid game plans and run based on them the advantage they have first is fishing every day they stay on top of where the fish are so they often drive right to the fish. You said in other posts that you have 4 rods already and 2 down riggers I gather you fish like I do with your wife a lot so I would set 2 of your rods up with mono for the riggers and 2 of them up with Braid for divers then I would look into a couple inline boards and 2 rods setup with core a 5 color and a 10 color. This will give you a nice spread and max you out for 2 people and is often my starting point for me and my wife. Then lok at getting some Dive Bombs to adjust the depth of the cores and with a little practice you will be able to cover the top 100 ft of water with 6 lines. This is where 90% of the fish are caught now a few lure choices and you are ready to go. Stay simple to start with and buy several of each and stick to a few basic colors of spoons and flies and plugs. Try and run a nice mix of each till something starts working then add more of that but never run all of one thing or all you will see is when they stop hitting that there will be times when no matter what you run you will catch fish or vise versa. There will also be times when only one presentation works so be prepared to at least dbl up on what works.

Thanks Terry I want to put 2 more rod combos together not sure if I want to go more colors of core or just stick with dive bombs on my core to make it run deeper. I have been thinking of a couple of ideas one will depend on which way I go with my wire rods. I have a set of mismatched Eagle Claw roller rods that have worked for me but don't like em very much and have heard so many bad reports on them so I want to upgrade them. So many toys so little money.

anyone want to take a side bet if any spoons in the set don't get picked by someone?

1 9 28 would be decent on a 5 color or less 18 and 24 mid depth on full core or riggers 20 and 25 on a SWR on overcast days I would do like I do keep em all then you won't have room for new spoons and can save money for beer and gas. Every year I clean out my spoons as they are over flowing every where and every year I replace all the ones I took out with a few more I really think I could catch fish the rest of my life with what I got. Sadly what you have there is a collection that probably set you back between 120 and 160 and will bring 20 buck or less on Ebay most of them will catch fish if you use em.

For the last week it has been warm and sunny with light and variable winds mostly west and south west winds. Skies are clear and today there is a offshore breeze with calm to 1ft conditions. You are fishing between Ludington and Holland with a 2 man crew in a smaller boat with no depth probe. Surface temps are in the upper 60's.

Terry what are you running for reels and backer on 15 color setups? I have considered going up to some longer cores but even with Power Pro backer can't get much past 12 colors on my reels I saw a dbl core setup once it looked like the winch on my boat trailer LOL I could probably get 15 colors on my CV55L reels but those have my copper on them I am hoping to add 2 more setups this year Maybe if I go with cheaper rods I can spend more on the reels. My 10 color setup on Magna 45 reels and I am going to run braid for backer this year as there is not much room for mono under a full core on them.

A 3 day wind like that is going to move a lot of warmer surface water into the Muskegon Grand Haven area. I would start out front in the 40 to 50 ft range early and troll north and watch my water temps odds are there will be some pockets of cold water near the bottom with lots of bait fish above them which will make the early bite very aggressive. Depending on how the fish act and if I find any trapped sections of cold water will determine my second move but most likely will head west some where around Duck lake Looking for colder water. If I find something round the 60 to 80 ft range I might fish it for a bit but most likely will pull lines and run NW to the ledge and troll south and run a couple of 5 color setups out from the boat and break out the wire divers with flasher flies and probably the copper rods sticking with greens and darker colors. With a few variables that is a 6 hour pattern by the time I am back out front at Muskegon in roughly 200ft giving me a choice of pulling lines and running in or turning east and trolling in if I have the couple hours it will take to troll in.

Hey John my wife is about 110 lbs soaking wet her sister is about the same size the two of them tag teamed a 12 lb king on core up at Manistee this spring neither one of them would touch a lead core rod the rest of the weekend. It was the bigest fish of the weekend and the girls caught it but the rest of the weekend they payed attention as to which rod was going off. It was mid July when she grabbed one of my full copper setups with a fish on it she was ready to hand over the rod and drive the boat in a few min. I don't mind the heavy gear but have never argued when someone else wants to land one on core. I am sure pretty much all of us have been slow to grab a core rod with others in the boat a time or two. There is no dening that a good core program will catch a lot of fish and we all love it but I for one admit it is easier to love sitting here on the computer wishing I was fishing than it is reeling it in. I am always amazed at how many times no one seems to notice the inside boards going off unless they are stripping line like mad. Everyone on the boat always wants to catch the biggest fish so when the inside board is pounding hard people race to get it but when you see the board slide back and the rod change to a steady pull meaning a smaller fish on the full core or copper there is seldom a rush to grab it. And whether you love core or hate it you really gotta have it cause it will put fish in the box when nothing else will and if I am burning gas fishing I want to catch fish.

Frank last year I spent over 20 grand fishing with the new boat and gear I can remember dreaming of a time when I would even make that much in a year of working. Never in my dreams did I ever see me spending that much on fishing and the sad part the next set of planned upgrades to the boat are just under 10 grand but unless i hit the lottery won't happen this year.

Yep lead core can kick even the biggest butts trying to drag in a big fish. 2years ago I was out with a friend on his boat and we were having a decent day but it was slowing down when he say "hey put out the lead core I have had the rod for 2 years and never caught a fish on it" so I grabbed it and picked a nice lure for it a MONSHINE BLOODY NOSE well he does not have a board for it so I tossed it out the chute and as I am letting it out I ask him how many colors and he don't know. So I just send it out without counting cause I was already out several colors when I asked and we are in 80 FOW. As I stuck it in the rod holder I told him he was fishing and I was driving a few min later the core pole goes off and he his having a blast for about 20 min then he starts asking how far did I let it out and my response was all the way to the fish keep reeling. He was huffing and puffing when I netted the fish and as I got ready to put it back out the rigger went off so I grabbed it and brought in a nice 8 lb king and reset the core and the rigger and went back to driving. At least now I knew it was a full core and just my luck the core went off again his fish and all the time he is fighting it he is complaining and just tell him keep reeling it in. The next time we went out he forgot his core rod LOL. I have seen a lot of guys and girls complain about core my wife won't even grab one of my core setups she just points at the bounceing rod and says your fish dear. Me I don't care if my arms are burning from fighting a fish that is a good thing but full core and copper setups are heavy big reels big rods and heavy line and bringing in a 20 lb king on on is a good cardio workout. The only way my wife will ever fight a big fish on copper is with the harness and belt on it is just too much weight for her.

I see a lot of guys have already chimed in and I agree with everything said so far it is a tool in the box for you to use. here is my rod setup that I keep on the boat at all times, 6 rigger rods all mono 2 w 20lb 2 w 25lb and 2 w 30lb 2 30lb wire rods 2 30lb braid rods 1 3 color core 1 2 color core 2 5 color core 2 10 color core and 2 300 ft 45lb copper setups. I also on ocasion bring my 10ft Steelhead rods with 8lb as they are a blast to catch fish on. On the days when I have enough people on board to run 12 or more rods my boat looks like a angery porcupine and we cover a lot of water width and depth wise. Running that much gear pretty much means drive straight or prepare to detangle. However it also means any fish near me gets a chance to bite on something and often I am surprised at what gets hit. No matter what most of us say often it is a oddball lure we tossed out for the fun of it that gets hit however we all still run our share of high percentage setups and getting the core out after sunup is one of them. The Lakes are much cleaner now than they have been in decades maybe ever this means that a lot of the tactics we used to employ to get their attention now scares them off. So a fish that avoids your rigger and diver setups may go after a spoon behind core several hundred feet behind the boat. I pretty much always have a couple of 5 color setups with bright spoons like the new Nitro Hell Fire or Circus or the old standard dbl orange crush. These setups pretty much always bag a few Steelhead and Coho nearly every trip. I send them way out on inline boards and pretty much let them run till they catch something. The next desision for me will depend on water temp and depth and that is to decide between copper and full core very seldom do I fish with enough people to do both so I kinda go with full core when running my braid divers and copper when running the wire divers. For me my Rigger progran and my Diver program are my meat and potatoes and I make nearly all my changes in these setups. Including adding a 2 or 3 color SWR to my riggers to add a stealth mode to the riggers.

Frank put me down for 50 of the 50lb and 50 of the 25 lb send me a pm with your address and I will send you a check. I use a ton of them things every year might as well buy em in bulk.

Pretty darn nice I would say should be proud to wear that one. I would get my wife one but then she would rather fish then sew so will just have to invest more in the boat.

Yes any thing more areodynamic will reduce blowback even thinner fishing line I have heard of guys using 60 lb Power Pro on their riggers which might help a lot with 8 or 10 lb weights but the fleas will suck bad on it when they are present. The thin pancake weights reduce blow back but are prone to underwater current issues. This can be good and bad as if you see that they are being pushed to one side meaning there is a cross current you may have better luck adjusting your course to run against the current as most fish prefer to face a current. But if you are fishing near other boats you may make a few of them mad if you change course. I have 4 riggers but go out with a dozen weights from 8 to 20 lbs and try to match them to the rigger and the task if we are out front 60 FOW or less 8 on the sides and 10 on the rears out deep I will run 10 or 12 on the side and 15 or 20 on the rear riggers.

10 lb balls will go deep but you will have more blow back the reason for heavy balls is to get them as close to straight down as possible while moving. Sitting still a 1 lb ball will hit botton in 300 ft with 300 ft of line but at 2.5 mph the same setup might only get 100 ft down. With 10 lb balls I figure a 100 on the rigger counter is about 80 down or less a 12 lb might be 85 and a 15 might be 90 and a 20 might make 95. and that is at 2.0 go faster they come up more move into a differant current they change again colder water is denser as well. I have had a 10 lb ball down 120 on the rigger in 85 ft of water without hitting bottom. While you are getting to know your gear do what most of us do pick a baseline speed like 2.5 mph and see how much it takes to hit the bottom in 40 FOW then move out to 50 FOW and try again. For example it might take 47 ft of cable to hit in 40 FOW and 62 to hit in 50 FOW and 75 ft to hit in 60FOW. I can switch modes on my fishfinder to show my cannon balls this is another option. I would sugget you get this book it will answer a lot of questions. http://www.precisionangling.com/bigwater.html Everything we run has differant dive curves and even the setups we run behind the cannon balls effects how it runs and how deep it is.

I prefer the tip up booms on the rear riggers as they clear my cooler better I might go back to pull backs on my side riggers mostly because I don't have auto stops and so having to get them stopped in the right spot for the tip ups to work well can be a PITA when you are in a hurry. I don't like rubber bands never have and don't keep any on the boat I use medium or heavy pinch pads and keep a lot of pressure on the rods my hook up ratio is pretty good so other than dragging a shaker now and then I am ok with it. One other thing I learned a long time ago was not to tighten the drag to tight on the riggers. If I hit a net or something I want the rigger to let out line rather than just to break something also I like to be able to hand adjust so I set the drag so it will hold the weight but I can still move it up or down by hand on rough days I have to run them a bit tighter so they don't bounce down.

I run mine in split screen mode when fishing and adjust the screen sizes depending on where I am if I am in 50 ft or less I have the plotter larger to watch for detail changes. Esp if trying to follow contours for Browns be cause I am usually fishing tight to the bottom and it is easier to follow the contour lines than to react to the fishfinder depth changes. In deeper water I tend to run the plotter zoomed out and in a smaller screen which gives me less detail but a better view of my over all track and position. That way I can see my marks and way points well in advance and plan any needed changes.

I have found I like my Lake Master chip better on inland lakes than the big lake as Mike stated the detail is often hard to read in deeper water. Perhaps due to constant changes in lake MI and size of the lake they may have left out some of the deep water detail. All in all it is a great chip and does a great job for me.

I understand Tony my boat is not a hardtop so when weather is nice I can roll up the canvas and stand up above the windshield. When weather is not so good being out at night sux even with the back lighting turned down I have glare and poor visability. My remote spotlight helps but increases glare off the bow railings. I wish I could afford radar I have looked at the hull mounted bow lights as they do a nice job but really don't like cutting holes in my boat. Anything you add needs to be forward and low just like fog lights on a car or truck the lower the better which just made me think of hanging something under my bow pulpit that might work. I could try a couple of them new small fog or driving lights and would not have the glare to deal with. Perhaps if I went with amber lens fog lights aimed at the water it might give me 30 to 50 yards of light without being too much of a problem for other boats.