SUPERTRAMP

It's the fine details that help you fill the box.

You can mark fish all day long and not catch a thing. Dialing in on the specifics helps to get more bites. Some days speed is everything. If you can get a pattern on fish hitting at a certain speed, the Fish Hawk will help you reproduce that everytime. Also temp... If you figured out the fish are only biting in 50 degree water, you can move you baits there and get more hookups. Maybe you graph is loaded wish fish, but you figure out that the active feeding fish are in 50 degree water. Your graph can't tell you that.

Another big one is autopilot. On tough days a certain direction will be key. Sometimes to the degree (Example: 200 degrees on the compass). If you waver from that 200 degrees you don't get bites, but whenever you get on that 200 heading it seems to work.

It's all about the fine details... Some days its easy and everyone catches fish. Other days.... not so much. The Fish Hawk will allow you to focus on the fine details.

All of the tools mentioned help. I have the Fishawk X4 and it is a real plus for finding active fish. Fish marked are not always active fish. I find that zeroing in on currents and temperatures are keys to catching active fish. You can mark fish all day and become frustrated that you can't get anything going. Find the right temp range and the fish you mark there are more likely to strike.

My auto pilot is really an important tool also. It enables me to work on the back deck and maintain the rite direction to keep the baits running correctly. Net fish and reset lines. If you don't have autopilot u really need a driver that can keep your compass heading going without getting too far off.

My Fishawk is an integral part of my trolling program. Love it.

The only Fly I will buy and run out of the package is Big Weenie I build most of my own and buy supplies from Purple Taco and Big Weenie. Big Weenie is the sponsor for our next event which will be held in Muskegon now due to a change. I have tried nearly all of the brands mentioned and while they are all decent flies my issue has been getting cheap VMC hooks and Mono leaders with them. So the first thing I have to do is replace the hook and leader meaning I paid 5 bucks for some tinsel and beads that I can build for under a buch all day long. You can however order the Maniac Glow from Big Weenie and it flat out catches fish. Gary's joke with me is that this years event fly will be the Buttsniffer we will see what he sends me LOL. I also tie nearly all of my leaders on Gamma Flouro leader with Owner 4/0 Octipus hooks they stay sharp they don't break and fish can't spit them out.

I second what Jim says. I really Enjoy tying my own flies. I get Supplies from Sigs and Big Weenie. I have become really kind of hooked on Big Weenie Meat rigs and supplies.

NICE

I haven't regretted getting the bigger boat. Costs more to run but the comfort and abilities to fish heavier seas is worth it.

Good Luck Jon. R u getting a new boat?

I heard Jim Bards was looking for someone in South Haven, on the It Ill Do.

Good people. Great fisherman, if you get on with Jim you will enjoy working with him.

How about the frog rattle spoon

Still have a bunch of Rattle Snakes, Green Frog and Yellow red dot were killer.

The first king I ever caught on my own boat was March 17, 2012 out of Portage IN. It was 80deg that day, and I had no clue what I was doing. I was trolling a bunch of thunderstick Jr's and some Net Craft knock offs, using 6ft bass spinning rods and cheap Mitchel reels. I had one downrigger, and the rest were flatlined with inline weights. The Coho were in thick, and several were hooked in the prop wash, we could actually see them hit the lures. It was really neat, and I wish I had it on video.

It took me 30 minutes to reel in the 16lb king that hit the thunderstick that was 30ft down on the rigger in 45ft of water. I can't believe it didn't burn that reel up that day. We ended up catching another 14lb king and a bunch of coho, all on those cranks. I quickly decided to invest in some heavier tackle. But for some reason, I haven't trolled crankbaits since. I'm definitely going to run some this year, especially early.

That reel later gave out, fishing for pike. It lost it's anti reverse, and the gears occasionally skip. It was a lot of fun reeling those kings in on such light tackle though.

April Crank baits are the norm, Brads thin Fin, #11 And #13 jointed rapalas, u pick em colors, but the Red Coachdog Thin Fin is the coho killa. We usually fish tight to the beach and around the dirty water plume in St. Joe, March 31 2012 killed em 4 on board 21 fish in 45 min. Most were mid teen kings, all came on body baits and 0000 dodger with Christmas tree coho candy flies. Spring is the time clean out the old bass baits and experiment.

Test you're patience ,try a Willis not with super braid!

It can be done with a long needle, but I prefer to splice in about 8' of 40# mono and use that to attach boards to. easy to tie the Willis Knot then.

Like most of the other guys. Board goes on the backer, I usually use braid power pro 30for my backer, splice an 8' piece of 40# mono in to attach the board to, I do use al lot of short cores in the spring. 1 color(SWR) 2 color(SWR), 4 color 6 color 10 color. All have different presentations. I like Walleye Boards, biggest problem is getting people to keep their rod tip low, and bring the board to the boat with rod tip low, remove board, and then fight your fish. Willis knot to splice the Leadcore to the backer. Works well when u use the mono spacer. You can try using an Albright knot, if you want to use all braid backer. Once you get to summer fishing, you will want to try copper rigs. They account for a lot of fish in July and August.

Do you think the reason for people running less of them' date=' is really that the quality is less.

Or is it just a marketing thing and these items do not get marketed to big water trollers.[/quote']

A little of both, I run some lipless crank baits in the spring. I have caught coho and browns with them. Don't be afraid to try something different.

If u r a member of GLF, click satellite on the header and go to the desired lake. The image for today is up now;

Sad Commentary on the quality of Normark Lures and other products. I still run The Wiggle Wart and Hot n Tot in the spring and all winter for Steel. This year its been kind of tough to find fishable water for steel. The oldies I still use are the Tadpolly and Tiny Tad that were Heddon staples. I normally don't run Body baits in deep water trolling situations, but have gone crazy with Tot's in 200 FOW down 100 and 75 to 100 back. Keep your old Tots, they are fish killers.

Just a vote for the #33 rubberband using a cannon bandbuster release. If you want to troll 11" paddles or big plugs just doubleup. You will see the rod shake before it releases and you get more positive hookups. 2 ways to attach the band to the line, spin it or take 1 wrap around 2 fingers and put the band thru the loop, pull the loop tight and it is a no slip set

With the limited equipment you have, I might suggest a shorter segment of leadcore or copper. Then, get yourself a couple different sizes of torpedo divers or snap weights to allow you to clip on and get added depth when you need to. With limited setups its important to make each setup as versatile as you can, IMHO

I second what is here. I don't have a limit on equipment but I used to fish out of a 16' Mirri Craft, 2 riggers 2 dipseys and 4 long lines when we had enough people. I suggest being versatile on your set up by using torpedo divers or divebombs. start with your 6 color add a 225 copper and use a 3 oz. dive bomb to get to the same depth as a 300 copper. use Walleye boards do get your longlinde out to the side. Attach the dive bomb about 6' above the leader and let the lineout to the backer. Attach the board and run it out let it slide out by using a little drag or thumb pressure. Good luck. That 225 copper with the dive bomb you will be running about 75 to 80' down.

It is a good idea to have an idea of what you want to put out as a spread when you go out, but don't get stuck on it. Based on what you described I'd say you might be a little to set on what presentations you are going to use and not changing enough. Listen to what the lures and your electronics are telling you. Sometimes the same presentation that worked yesterday will work today, but just as often it will need to be tweaked. A couple years back we fished the Grand Haven tournament and did pretty well on the first day. The tournament leader was fishing the same area as us too. The next day we went back to the same water and pretty much fished the same water with the same lures. We were seeing fish but couldn't get them to go very well. We scratched out enough fish to weigh in but they were smaller than the day before. The day 1 leader did the same thing and was around us much of the day. Day two's weigh in had a couple boats that really changed from day one and went deep to catch a cooler full of very big kings at 200'+ deep. We never got to 180 FOW let alone put a line down there. Neither us or the day 1 leader finished in the money -- because we didn't listen to what the fish were telling us.

I have learned over the years to listen to my electronics. One of the rules when flying a plane is to believe your electronics... same thing applies to fishing. I bought a fish finder and down speed/temp for a reason, it doesn't make any sense to not listen to them. Yes there have been times when I catch fish when I don't see any on the graph - usually on stealthier rigs away from the boat -- but most of the time I fish what I see. Too many times I have moved a line to "chase" a couple of marks on the graph and gotten a hit right away. First thing in the morning I will go to my target area and use the graph to search for fish at 8 mph and don't put lines in until I see some consistent marks. I don't like to spend time and gas washing lures where there aren't any fish.

When my downspeed/temp went out on me a couple years ago it made it difficult to consistently get my presentations tuned. The underwater currents as well as the surface winds can really make getting your presentation fine tuned difficult. Even when you catch a fish and know what the GPS or RPMs said, it can be different 1/2 mile along. When I lost my downspeed I went back to reading the diver rods to gauge my speed. To me this is more reliable than GPS speed or RPMs singe the angle of the line relative to the boat will also tell you if you are in a cross current or going with/into the current. I would highly recommend getting a downspeed and it doesn't have to be the newest/latest/greatest -- one that works consistently is better than none. Too often making a speed change and being able to reproduce it has turned a day around -- especially when there are fish on the graph and others around me are catching fish.

Fishawk, pro troll any of the speed temp units are a great addition, but most important thing I find is to eliminate water. Try to find the right conditions and hit it hard. My fishawk is possibly the best tool I have. Speed on the surface or SOG is deceiving because of currents, that is where the speed temp is the biggest help. Do not be afraid to change up speeds.

In other words Mitch is right on. Just remember your GPS speed can be a good indicator to start then adjust as you start picking up fish.

In June when guys are getting 8-10 fish I am only getting 2-5, now I know there are a lot of variables but my spring set up seems good. My spoon program doesn't seem to catch as many fish as my flasher fly, plug, and meat program. Is this due to my speed or just my presentation? My presentation for June usually consist of 6 rods, two downriggers, two braid divers, a 225copper, and a 10 color. On sunny days spoons are yellow and green in the top 50, one paddle on rigger 70-100ft down, and mountain dew hypnotist set up on braid diver down 40-60. What do you guys have to say about that spring set up? OH I don't have a fish hawk but my surface speed is 2.0 to2.7..

We have an old saying around southern lake michgan, when the cotton wood is flyin the fishing is dying. There is a period from about the first week of June to the middle of July where the fish migrate offshore and feed on fly hatches and other delicacies. I found fish in deep water on the surface in June and July last year, the year befor we just decided to go perch fishing. June is the time to tune up your copper and diver programs get deep and catch lake trout. If you go offshore look for scum lines and troll 3+ mph with 2 and 3 color lead core and any orange or pink spoons like the regular stinger or Fuzzy Bear. I like Orange Killer, and variations of the Tequila Sunrise spoons. Get your boards way out to the side and keep your divers high in the water column.

I know what works for me, I have a Humminbird 858cdi,50 kHz transducer good signal to all the depths we fish, also has down image for shallow water perch, It has lake map included and works good with the split screen. Cost about $900.00. If I wanted to go larger screen would probably go to Furuno.

Been Fishing since I was 5 yrs old; started salmon and walleye fishing since 1971; retired electrical engineer; worked at Commonwealth Associates and Consumers Energy in Jackson, MI. Fish out of St Joe and South Haven and in August go to Manistee. Usully take a few runs to Lac Erie in nroe in May and June also.

Own 21' Grady White Adventure w/130HP Honda 4 stoke on it.

Sounds like an autobiography of me, Welcome to the site. I am slipped in ST.JOE, and My boat is a Chris Craft 316 Commander SF. Give the SilverKing a call on channel 68 most weekends we are out. We also fish on Tuesdays.(my day off work)

Nicely done keep the reports coming.

How does it do in rougher water?

For long coppers (300'+) I use 50# braid backing and for short coppers (250'-) i use Blood Run 30# copper backer.

Im not a fan of segmenting your copper. Too many splices = trouble.

As for your connections backing to copper and copper to leader... my first choice would be a Spro heavy swivel size #3 but an albright knot will also do.

I second that, every splice is another possible hang up on guides or weak spot in the set up. I use 40# power pro for all my copper backers and have 200, 250, 300 and 450 set ups just be sure to use the proper size reel for each length. full reels mean more accurate lineconters and better drag operation.

I also put a 4 to 6 foot section of 40# big game mono between the backer and the copper, gives me a place t o attach boards without having to wrap the clamp.

might be great for river steel trolling up stream help get outside lines out further, or for browns on flat lines to get it closer to the beach on lite rods and lite lines,.

Thanks for all the input here. Looks like, after reading here... I need to get some copper in my spread. A few questions on the copper: Do I set them out first on boards, or wait until riggers, dipsy's are out then go over the top? Is it best to have a roller rod for copper? What size rod? When setting out multiple boards per side, how far between boards and how close is your closest board to the boat? Knots for backing... double uniknot? Thanks Tim

It really doesn't matter when you put them out. I usually set my riggers and dipseys and the I let out my hi long lines and get the board way out to the side, next comes the short copper or a full core, then the 300 to 450. The key is let the line straight out the back, attach the board and slowly let it go back and after it clears your short stuff let start letting it swing to the side and continue letting out line until it is where you want in relation to the rest of the spread. a nice V starting deep in the middle and working to the shallowest presentation. This allows you to re set the outside lines with out having to bring the other boards in/

, I am not like you guys , you guys are pros and I always have the wide onboard driving ..... Need I say more???

I dont know if I could get away with calling my girl wide:eek:

Walleye boards have a backwards facing clip so you dont have to wrap. The farther away from the boat you can get the less bend you will have. My rods are are not bent toward the water at all.

Maybe im misunderstanding you post