Hockey390

Last week a fish got me thinking quite a bit about how to manage hooking up with a big king that is really screaming. Rod setup was a fly (50# mono leader) to spin dr, spin dr to snubber was 36" of 30# big game, snubber to dipsey, dipsey connected to 50 lb power pro (600 feet) with 100 feet of 20# mono backing. Fish hit hard and ran as good as I've seen, ripping 300+ feet off FAST. Knowing the lines and snubber involved I had the person fighting the fish tighten the drag down as I noticed it was getting close to the backing and the fish wasn't even showing a sign of letting up. Drag was nearly maxed and thumb pressure applied to the spool as it got close to the backing. Finally just as the backing was coming off the spool the fish decided it's first run was over. I went from slowing the boat mid fight to stopping the boat to try and keep some line on the reel. After fighting for another minute the fish got off and at the end of the line I found a very minor tangle up with a 300 CU setup that I had been trying to keep clear and/or get in the boat to avoid tangles with. During all this I pulled in a full core, 2 rigger lines and was just getting to the 300 CU. Instantly I started playing back through to see if I did something wrong or what I could do different in the future. Part of me thinks the fish might have caught the copper and it backed the hook out. Another part of me wonders if how hard we tried to stop the fish opened up the hook set and allowed it to come free on a head shake. Or perhaps the hard pressure on the drag was causing the fish to run and if I would have had them keep it lighter it might have turned earlier (eliminating the need to slow down boat, pull lines, etc). The other part of me wondered if we hooked submarine from shark week and it simply knew how to get off the hook . With all that said, what do you do when you get a real screamer on? - Back off on the boat throttle, or keep it going to keep lines from sinking? - Loosen the drag vs. tightening down? - Pull other lines vs. leave them in? - Other suggestions? Gotta love the big one that gets away! I'll be thinking of it all the way through until next spring.

Does the Mag 5 use the same auto stop as the mag 10 STX? I'm assuming it's the newer model?

Has anyone ran coated cable and a Moore Subtroll on a Mag 10 STX? I've been asking Cannon and Moore for their input and neither wants to give much of a clear answer. I've read auto-stop will have issues with coated cable, but I'm also nervous that the speed/torque of the Mag10STX is going to have problems with coated cable. Flip side is I've already heard the sub troll will work with regular cable. Anyone have experience here?

I did consider this, but how would I do that for a 36" track? Multiple pieces? The tracks I have are berts so there are only 3 pair of screws, 2 screws per end and a pair in the middle.

Thank you all for the feedback. I need to decide if I want to cut a bigger access hole on the starboard side because getting a backing plate in there is going to be almost impossible with how it is today. Just getting washers and nuts was quite a task. The other side will be a piece of cake, just need to cut the plywood and secure it. I think for now I'll just do one side and see how much difference it makes, then tackle the other side. In response to how much flex there is, I'm not at home to measure, but it is enough to make me feel uneasy about it.. I did notice a lot of slop in the swivel base and all of that, which I tried to compensate for when gauging how much flex there is. I really didn't want the 4" risers, that's just what is out there. I know fishinggreats.com has a 2.5".. Maybe that would help as well?

I just finished installing 36" Bert's tracks on my glass boat. I've got Cannon Mag 10's with swivel base which is then attached to the Berts fixed mount for downriggers with 4" rise. I put the riggers on last night for the first time and am concerned with how much movement the whole setup has. It seems to "flex" quite a bit when I put pressure on them and that is with no cannonball. Should I be concerned with how they will hold up? Tracks were mounted using standard hardware from berts and a larger oversized washers under the end that the rigger is going to be. I asked if I needed a backing plate and was told I did not for the 36" track. My fiberglass is 1/4" thick, very flat and the mount was done very clean.

Thank you all very much for all the input. At the end of the day I decided on the mag 10's and added rod holders. I definitely want to be able to pivot the riggers in or up for docking so the 10's were my choice since they came with swivel bases. Another main point was that I already have holes for cannons on my gunwales so I opted to not drill more. Lastly the speed and auto stop would have had me paying more for the big jons to get something comparable in that regard which I opted out of. Nothing against big Jon here, just had a better match with the cannons for my scenario. Maybe I'll add a couple big Jon's some day if I ever need corner riggers

I'm also trying to decide if the extendable booms are worth it or not. I'm struggling to see why I would need them unless I was going over a swim platform.

Ya I definitely agree with you there. I did do some searches first and read through, I was hoping to spark a comment or two here that would sway me one way or the other. Such as someone that owned both and likes one over the other because ___. Maybe even someone saying it would be dumb to drill more holes, keep the canons because the mounts are there. Or for that matter, maybe I'm drilling holes either way because the mag's and uni's have different mounts?

Upgrading from (2) Canon Manual Uni Trolls to electric and looking for feedback here. Cost aside, what are your thoughts? I like the rod holders of the Big Jon, but Cannon is faster and I've already got the mount. I run two rods on one rigger sometimes, but less than 25% and have other rod holders so I don't NEED two on the rigger, but who complains with having an extra.. Boat is a 21' Walk Around and riggers are mounted on gunwale if that impacts your decision. Cannon Mag 10 STX vs. Big Jon Pro Tournements

Just to follow-up on this, Advantage Marine provided good service and priced as quoted. My initial note about them stated I wasn't pleased but would be happy with good slow service over fast and sloppy. My only complaint was telling me I would get service much sooner than I actually did. Had some computer issues so shouldn't be an ongoing issue. I would recommend and will be back again.

Thanks for the input. I ended up taking it to Advantage Marine in Zeeland. Quote was fair, but haven't received the bill or gotten the boat back yet. First impression was great, very friendly and got me in within a week. Not impressed that the appointment date I was given was April 21 and called on April 24 to check in and was told they wouldn't be looking at it until April 30. I'll reserve overall feedback at this point because I will take slow but proper work over fast and sloppy -- just don't like the bait and switch

Ya I like giving business to people working on the side for small stuff like this. I know how it can be with earning money on the side and I'm pretty cheap as it is so I try and avoid the dealers if I can.

At the end of the season my outboard starting to idle pretty rough. I'm looking at having a full tune up done on my Mercury 2-Stroke outboard before I hit the water this year. I did it once through a dealership, but want to try someone that does it on the side. Does anyone have any recommendations for an outboard mechanic near Grand Rapids? I'm technically in northern Allegan county so Holland, Grand Rapids, Allegan, anywhere in there would be fine. Thanks

I like using the HDI and am glad I got the option. It's nice for structure identification and also if you run the DI and sonar on split screen it's nice to have two things saying there's a fish down there. Also will show more detail versus the sonar just showing a big blob sometimes.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, ideas, tips, etc. Hopefully I'll get a bigger boat for next year so I can get out there more often than I am now and try and string together more days. I'm hoping to get a speed/temp probe, but regardless I'll try varying my speeds even more and make sure to try everything in between (including the S pattern). 3x spinny for leaders and 4-5x paddle for leaders. Staying away from the pack. Get out earlier and start high early. Definitely pick up Great Lakes Salmon & Trout and Keating on Kings. Hopefully I can get out with a few experienced anglers next year as well.

When you say vary the depths, are you talking drastic changes or just small adjustments? On a normal day if I'm in 100 FOW and marking fish around 50, I usually put a lure at 40 stacked on one at 60 on DR and another DR at 50. I have two downriggers so I'm generally fishing 1 lure on each rigger, 1 stacker or slider on one side, a dipsey out each side and a 300 CU down the middle. If I vary my depth I usually move everything down 5 foot on the riggers (so now down 45, down 55, down 65) and then let out another 10-20 feet on the dipseys. Speed adjustments usually consist of an adjustment from 2.5 up to 2.8 (over ground) going in the same direction, then a change in direction by 45*, try 2.5 to 2.8, change 180*, swing a full 90*... Just trying to try each direction and each speed since I don't have a speed/temp at the ball.

I'm going to start posting my reports now that I found this site, but here I'll get you caught up on my season: June 19 - Fished 5:00 til dark, 1 for 1, 4 LB coho - Port Sheldon - Green fly on white spin dr. Caught on DR down 65 in 110 FT of water. June 22 - Fished 6:00 AM til noon, 0 for 0 - Port Sheldon Took break.. discouraged and fishing reports were slow July 5 - Fished 6:00 AM til 1 PM - 1 for 1, 3 LB Atlantic - Torch Lake - caught 65 feet back on smallest dipsey - UV Greasy Chicken Wing Spoon - 100 FOW Took break.. discouraged and fishing reports were slow August 16 - Fished 6:00 AM til 12:30 - 0 for 1 - Holland - Hit on green dolphin 25 FT down on slider in 90 FOW. August 23 - Fished 6:00 AM til 11:00 - 0 for 0 - Port Sheldon I enjoy my time on the lake no matter what happens, but how can you not question your approach when a skunk is becoming the norm?

I've been really struggling to put fish in the box. This is my 3rd year running my own show so I know it won't come overnight, but I'm trying to learn from my mistakes and improve. Here are a few questions going through my head: 1) When using combo's such as a dipsey with spoon, fly with spiny, fly with spiny behind dipsey, etc... Do you generally try and use the same color throughout? For example: Blue dipsey with blue spiny and blue fly versus.. Silver dipsey with white spiny and blue fly I know it's all about what is working for that day, but as a rule of thumb should I try and make the combo consistent in color throughout? 2) Are the leader lengths of flies an ok place to start for lead from a spiny or are they way too short? I mostly attach my flies, meat rigs, etc. right to the spiny. Are they designed to be used with additional leaders or best suited just as they are? 3) I'm using powepro with a snubber on my dipsey rods. I've seen people attach the snubber between the main line and dipsey but also between the dipsey and the lure. Being a shock absorber for powerpro I think I've got it right.. But is there a correct location for the snubber? 4) With the exception of trying to get the skunk off my boat, do any of you wash your lures to remove human scent or use attractant scents? I might be over thinking, but my old man used to use Dr. Juice when he'd take me out.. But I didn't really learn to catch by example... Just liked to be out

Hybrid ideas... Big fan of this.

I bought the dreamweaver Plano box that has tubes with caps for both ends. It's really nice for seeing all the flies and keeping them organized but its time consuming to put them into the tubes. I think I'm going to try attaching the flies to the paddles and wrapping them an then keeping spare flies in the tubes. I like the pool noodle idea, but I have a small boat and the tube box is space friendly.

So do you just wrap the leader around the flasher?