SeaCatMich

Me too.

If you are in the west or central Michigan area, go to the big Sportsman's Swap Meet coming up 2/2 near Grand Rapids (http://www.greatlakesfisherman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29649&highlight=swap+meet). Always a lot of good stuff and I have seen quite a few roller rods for sale the last couple of years.

Use the Reel Fill Calculator to figure out what you can put on the reel!

http://www.greatlakesfisherman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16491&highlight=calculator

You will need to know the capacity figures for your reel and the diameter of the line(s) you are going to put on the reel. Plug in the numbers and you will be real close.

At a minimum I would try to get 100 yards of braid for backing and more if the reel will take it. Remember that once you get the copper in the water you will then have backing going from the rod to the board. That's your starting place for where the fish will start taking line. A good spunky King can get out another 200'+ pretty easy. Better to have too much backing than not enough!

I tried a pair of the level wind under rod reels and liked them -- but I really prefer a spinning reel and winding with my left hand. The drags were not very impressive though and I decided to go with all line counters. I'm guessing the reels are history.

Not sure where this should go, but figured here is as good as anywhere.

On Saturday morning we (me any my fishing buddy Larry) met at the Portland exit off I96 and drove up to Pentwater for the 2013 Ludington Regional Fishery Workshop put on by Sea Grant.

Here is a link to the meeting agenda: http://www.miseagrant.umich.edu/files/2012/12/Ludington-Agenda-2013.pdf

I took notes at the meeting and here is what I found interesting or thought that others might want to know about. Hopefully it is useful If you have questions, ask and I'll try to answer.

1. Salmon Stocking & Plan

• Information on the Lake Michigan stocking is available on the Sea Grant web site
  
• The history of the stocking reduction process was reviewed
  
• Decisoin was made to have a 50% overall stocking reduction for the lake with criteria to review to adjust in the future
  
• Since Michigan has the bulk of the natural reproduction in the NW lower peninusla, Michigan's plants will be reduced more than other states
  
• Michigan -- 67% reduction
  
• Wisconsin - 38%
  
• Illinois - 8%
  
• Indiana - 11%
  
• The criteria used to determine where Michigan's plants would be impacted were: 1) Amount of nat reproduction; 2) Maximize the Fishery Opportunity; 3) Broodstock maintenancy; 4) Maintain net pen use; 5) Hatcher logistics
  
• The stocking numbers for each plant location were then reviewed
  
• Only two locations were eliminated for plants
  
• Initial method was to make a 67% accross the board reduction and then adjust based on the criteria above
  
• Little Manistee saw the smallest reduction to insure that there would be a good return to the weir there to sustain the planting/hatchery system for all locations
  
• Jay stated "The primary goal of the Chinook plants is to maintain the lake based fishery. Other species (Steelhead) are better suited to provide a river fishery."
  
• Stocking will stay the same for the 2013, 2014, and 2015 plants. 2015 will be the first real returns of the fish planted this spring to apply the measurements to make adjustments.
  
• The main measure to make adjustments is the size/weight of the returning 3 year old fish -- avg weight of 15.4# = further 30% plant reduciton; avg 19.8# wight = 30% increase in planting numbers
  
• All fish planted in the Michigan/Huron watershed are tagged chemically, have wire coded tags in nose, and are fin clipped (adapose fin between dorsal fin and tail removed).
  
• DNR is actively monitoring stocked vs wild catches at major tournaments with fish data collected
  
• Fish catch data also being done with creel survey program
  
• Looking for ways to improve/expand this, but current department budget constraints are severely constraining expansion
  
• Also collecting data from manditory charter boat catch reports
  
• Discussed the potential for stocking other species instead of chinook at locations -- net evaluation is based on how many alewife a chinook consumes vs the other species. For example it takes 2.2 brown trout to eat as much as a single chinook, so 2 browns could be planted ffor each chinook not planted.
  

2. Fishery Division Updates

• Fishery Division strategic plan on the DNR Fisheries web site is open for public comment through 2/10/13
  
• Would like input on Family Friendly Fishing initiative to identify locations to publicise
  
• Bag limit for Steelhead on Little Manistee & Platte rivers reduced to 1/day from 3/day. Reason is reduced numbers returning to weir for egg taking over last few years indicating too many fish being harvested.
  
• 2 fish daily Pike limit. Will be looking at slot limit on some bodies of water.
  
• 1 fish per season harvest limit for Muskie
  

3. Great Lakes Water Levels

• Normal seasonal rise for Lake Michian is 12". 2011 was 4"
  
• New Internet tool available to see what is going on: http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/data/now/wlevels/dbd/
  
• Biggest problem is the lack of precipitation feeding/replenishing the Lake Superior watershed. Has been a problem for 10 years with water levels lower on Lake Michigan/Huron, and Erie in all but one of those years.
  

4. Forage Fish Studies

• 2011 trawls had the lowest biomass in history of the trawls
  
• 2012 results not available for discussion. Only thing they would say was that the results were "average".
  

5. Natural Reproduction of Chinook Salmon on Lake Michigan

• Lots of data provided including the methodology used to measure wild vs stocked fish. DNR intern doing his doctorial thesis on the topic developed a comprehensive method to measure/eval the data including false positive and false negative identifications of wild or planted fish
  
• 54 to 56% of fish determined to be wild from 2006 through 2009
  
• 63% wild in 2010
  
• Statisics show wild fish mature more slowly (usually at 3 years old but some at 4)
  
• Planted fish seem to be bigger but mature for spawing sooner (2-3 year olds)
  
• Larger percentage of wild fish in the population as fish get older -- stocked fish are maturing and spawning sooner taking them out of the population
  

Lunch -- The Ludington Charter Boat Assn sold raffle tickets and the drawing handed out ~30+ gallon ziplock bags of tackle and gift certificates (Larry won one, I didn't ... oh well)

6. Great Lakes Observing System

• New Internet tool available soon: http://explorer.glos.us
  
• Will consolildate data from many different reporting tools through out Great Lakes
  
• GLATOS has capabiity to report on location of harvest for lake trout with accostic tags implanted in belly of fish if tag is returned
  
• Port Sheldon/Holland buoy will return in 2013. The down temp measuring "thermo string" was a borrowed unit in 2012 and malfunctioned. Funding is still needed to get a new one.
  

7. Who is fishing and what are they catching

• MiDNR State Wide Angler Survey -- creel surveys
  
• Catch/Creel data is available on the MiDNR Fisheries division web page: http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/chartercreel/
  
• 2012 data will be online by 2/18/13
  
• Catch data is extrapolated based on the actual creel surveys by calculating a catch/fish per hour rate and then using that to calculate based on how many people are observed fishing
  
• Different methods (pier, shore, boat, inshore, offshore...) plus when and where are all kept separate and data is not mixed for a specific location in doing the calculations/extrapolations
  

8. Asian Carp

• Not much "new" info
  
• Said that carp had been "found" in Calumet Lake -- did not say if this was DNA or actual fish (I'm pretty sure it was DNA)
  
• Considering how to reduce numbers of fish downstream from the electronic barriers with the thought being: less fish = less potential for fish to breach the barriers
  
• Most (85%+) of the Asian carp by weight and number are the Silver Carp. 90% of the carp harvested by netting are the Big Head carp. Mainly because there is not a market for the smaller Silver Carp and they are more difficult to net.
  
• Without gov't subsidies, there is no viable economic model to support netting the carp
  

9. Charter Fishing Study

• Sorry didn't get much from this. Catch rates/numbers were lower last year than in 2011 (I think )
  

10. Presentation on Big Lake Fishing Tips & Techniques by Capt George Freeman (Free Style Charters0

• Has gone to a lot of meat rigs for after "morning flury" presentations
  

I am going to try to participate in at least a few of the tournament days. Water levels may have an impact though as last year it was a little difficult at times with the Holland ramp since I need to back in quite a ways with the cat's dual bunk trailer.

Are you sure you have hydraulic steering? Generally hydraulic steering does not require the engine to be running and is completely independent of it. With hydraulic you should have a fill spot on the top of your steering wheel hub to be able to add hydraulic fluid.

An almost direct replacement for your Autohelm is the Raymarine SPX-5R and actually is its direct descendant. Like the Autohem it mounts under the steering wheel to the steering hub and turns the wheel for you to keep on course. Much better unit than the Autohelm/SportPiot series though. It will work with any steering system -- if you can turn the wheel it will do it for you. It is actually a rotary steering system and not truly a hydraulic system. For hydraulic steering a rudder reference transducer to measure/report the position of the rudder is needed -- and from my experience, I recommend it for any steering system for best performance and especially when trolling.

A true hydraulic auto pilot is going to insert a hydraulic steering pump into the hydraulic hoses you currently have and the pump is going to move the hydraulic fluid instead of your boat's steering wheel. They are not difficult to install but doing the hydraulic hose fittings may take some special tools and it is a tedious job. When I had mine installed I had it done because of my dual outboards with a steering ram on each. Raymarine, Simrad, Garmin, SiTex all make very good true hydraulic steering autopilot systems. Prices are going to start in the $2000 range and go up from there.

If you have power assisted steering then one option I know of is to implement a Raymarine mechanical drive unit (http://raymarine.com/view/?id=579&collectionid=30&col=5915). These work with most of their control heads and basically take the place of the power assist steering when the engine is off. You would then connect the kicker to the main engine with a control rod (EZ steer or similar). Cost is going to be pricey though.

I don't know much about them but there is also something called an octopus drive that I believe can be used on power assist steering boats. I believe that the Garmin APs support this and maybe the Simrad and SiTex.

Another option would be to install a remote steering system for your kicker. The downside is that it will only control the boat's direction when using the kicker (trolling) and not when cruising with the main engine. The deluxe unit on the market is the Garmin TR-1 but there are also the Control King and Panther Electro Steer. You can even add remote trolling throttle controls to them that make fine tuning the speed/rpms on the kicker very precise.

I would think an outboard model Lund Tyee Gran Sport will probably work for what you want. I would not go with an I/O version as they will have less interior room and draft more water. Lund Tyees are pretty heavy aluminum boats but in that length should be okay if your lakes are not real small.

If you are talking about Saginaw Bay or Lake Erie walleye fishing, that is probably the smallest you should be thinking of. While you can fish in a smaller boat on good days, it is the days that start out good but get worse while you're out there that make the bigger hull worth having. The bad thing about both of those spots is that with land in the road, the weather will often sneak up on you and to get back to the ramp you are going into the weather.

Talk to Bob at Big Papa Sportfishing if you want trolling bags. He's local to Michigan and makes them himself (well, actually I think it's Mrs Bob ). Bob is a great resource to discuss your boat with to get the right size bag and stands behind his products too. I know he has been at the Flint Steelheader's show and I'm pretty sure he also exhibits in GR. The web site is http://www.bigpapasportfishing.com. Give him a call or stop by the booth at a show and he will help you get the right thing.

I'm glad the shows are on, but honestly I'm not all that impressed. If they actually showed something about how they do the fishing -- methods, lures, reasoning behind decisions... it would offer a whole lot more value. Heck they spent very little time showing anything about what Living The Dream did -- one shot of Willis fighting a fish.

My other complaint is that it does not really show the real results of the 333 contest, let alone the whole Tournament Trail event at the port. For this week's show, Living The Dream was the top boat shown and from the show you would assume they "won" the 333 for the port, but they actually only finished 6th (333 St. Joe results).

Better than nothing, but could be much better in my view.

Going to post a report in a few minutes!

The Torpedo 7 strand is also good and better priced than other brands. I have one rod with the 19 strand and it is good but each wire is much finer and does not seem to be as durable to me. It is easier to tie to terminal tackle though.

I too use a pair of Shimano Tekota 600LC reels for my wire divers but started with Daiwa SG47LCA reels and honestly for the cost difference, I think I would have stayed with the SG reels. Both hold 1,000' of 30# wire perfectly with no backing. Both reels have the same retrieve ratio. I went to the Tekota after hearing how great they were when they came out but I'm not all that impressed after 5 years.

I would also recommend a quality roller rod. You can use regular guide rods with a Twillie Tip but a roller makes it a lot more pleasant to fight a fish with. I use Shimano Talora 9' roller rods and they are great. I had Okuma Blue Diamond rollers but they were/are much heavier in weight. I then went to 7' Talora rollers but found that they were too close to my outdown riggers for comfort -- wire on wire isn't a good idea

Matching your fly's leader length to the speed you run can have a very big effect on how well they work. Get the flasher or dodger to fly length right with non negative fish and flies can be a hot presentation. For the speed I usually run 2.2-2.5 mph on my FishHawk X4, a 23" leader for 8" flashers or a 28" for 11" flashers has been pretty good. I measure from the tip of the leader loop to the nose of the fly.

Like Jim, I too have used the BW Vibrator heads with flies as sliders off my riggers with some success -- better in 2010 and 2011 than this past season.

Too bad. I was looking forward to the day. What are the odds that we could have another 50* day for some steelheading instead? My bet is for twenty something at best.

They look to be well made and have nice bag options. Kind of pricey though -- especially for the 48/106" handle with salmon size hoops.

Dave, Is there a chance that you will do this yet or was that a gla "trademarked" deal?

I am still trying to get to one of those.

Dave and Dan do this independently from GLA Magazine as the Great Lakes Angler Super Salmon School.

Here is the link to their FaceBook page where the 2013 schedule is right at the top: https://www.facebook.com/GreatLakesAnglerSuperSalmonSchool

The 2013 Sea Grant Ludington Fishery Workshop is this coming Saturday (1/12) from 9 am to 3:30 pm in Pentwater. I'm driving up from the Lansing area on Saturday morning with another fishing buddy -- have two spots in the Avalanche open if anyone wants to go. Email me at [email protected] if interested.

Is anyone else from GLF gong to be there?

Here is the info I received a month or so ago from the MiDNR:

Ludington Regional Fishery Workshop

January 12, 2013

Comfort Inn & Suites

7576 S. Pere Marquette Hwy

Pentwater, MI

Cost is $10 at the door and includes lunch

• 8:30 Coffee and Registration
  
• 9:00 Welcome and Introductions -- Dan O'Keefe – SW District Educator, Michigan Sea Grant
  
• 9:15 Chinook Salmon Stocking Strategy and Tactical Plan -- Jay Wesley – Southern Lake Michigan Management Unit Supervisor, MDNR
  
• 9:55 DNR Management Updates -- Jay Wesley – Southern Lake Michigan Management Unit Supervisor, MDNR
  
• 10:15 Break
  
• 10:30 Great Lakes Water Levels Forecast -- Mark Breederland – NW District Educator, Michigan Sea Grant
  
• 10:50 Status of Lake Michigan Forage Fish -- Dr. Charles Madenjian – Research Fishery Biologist, USGS
  
• 11:30 Natural Reproduction of Chinook Salmon in Lake Michigan -- Randy Claramunt – Fisheries Research Biologist Specialist, MDNR
  
• 12:00 Lunch and LACA Tackle Raffle
  
• 1:00 Great Lakes Observing System -- Dr. Jennifer Read – Executive Director, University of Michigan
  
• 1:30 Who is Fishing and What are they Catching in Ludington and on the P.M. River? -- Tracy Kolb – Statewide Angler Survey Program Biologist, MDNR
  
• 1:50 Fishing for Extinction – The Role of Commercial Netting in Asian Carp Control -- Dr. Brian Roth – Assistant Professor, Dept. of Wildlife and Fisheries, MSU
  
• 2:30 Great Lakes Basin Charter Fishing Study -- Dan O'Keefe – SW District Educator, Michigan Sea
  
• 3:00 Big Lake Fishing Tips & Techniques --Capt. George Freeman – Free Style Charters
  
• 3:30 Adjourn
  
• Ludington Area Charter Boat Association Meeting to Follow
  

You guy's ROCK !!

The gentleman who invented the Chamberlain release actually lives a few towns over from me. I heard they worked really good. I think I will use the rods and reels that came with the boat for now as they are in good shape. The boat also came with two dipsy diver rods and a box full of dipsy divers. Do you guy's use attractors behind the divers? Should I invest in some planer boards for spring fishing?

If you don't have any of the Chamberlain releases yet, get some. You will really like them whether going after the smaller Atlantics up in the water column or lakers down deep. Being able to set the hit release tension different than the rod tension is wonderful. Really nice to put a good bend in the rigger rod but still have a small fish trip the release.

I run attractors behind my divers about 75% of the time -- flashers with flies or cut-bait or dodgers with a fly or squid. I prefer the flashers because they run effectively at a wider range of speeds. Spoons can also work well. The Slide Diver Lite-Bites use the same concept of separate release settings for the rod and the lure/fish as the Chamberlain rigger releases, plus they allow the lure to be set behind the diver at any distance you want. Dipsy and Walker divers pretty much restrict you to the length of the rod to be able to reel the fish close enough to net it. In shallow and/or clear water or when the fish are boat shy, this can be very helpful.

I have the Dutton-Lainson in the 9000 size for my catamaran hull on the dual bunk trailer. It works great for me. My trailer's bunks sits higher than most V hulls and even with "normal" water levels I have to winch the boat on at most ramps for the last 10' or so after powering it on at idle speeds.

In the past with other boats I have had the Powerwinch brand model 712 and 912. They worked well too. I like the Dutton better though as it seems a little faster with more power and has a strap rather than a steel cable plus was lower cost.

I would hesitate to use 8# test line on a medium heavy rod. Most MH rods are also not going to be very sensitive for detecting hits if drifting bait. I would probably go with a float system to use the float as a strike indicator or purchase a $30 rod in a lighter action for the intended purpose.

I have bought bags from goodmans in the past and they work fine at a little over half price than the FoodSaver brand bags. Both rolls and precut bags are available. A few years back our Steelheaders chapter did a group buy on them and did even better since overall shipping was less.

I just measured a Bert's electronics mount that I had in the house. The base that slides in the track is 7/32" thick, it is 2 31/32" wide, and 4" long.... so just a shade thinner than 1/4" x 3" x 4". This gives it just enough space to slide in the track and then 1/4" thumb screws through the plate that when tightened put pressure against the bottom of the track to hold the insert in place.

As for a cheaper track system, the Tite-Lok track is cheaper but not as strong as the Bert's, Traxstech, or Cannon tracks that are all the same dimensions but have different hole patterns for mounting and different finishes. The Tite-Lok dimensions are smaller so components from the other companies will not slide in them.

I think that it was only banned from shore too. Have fished it wading upstream from where Kalamazoo street crosses over the river and never any issues other than some odd looks. Some real nice gravel beds in there where Coho like to set up.

I have "known" Kyle for about 2 years now via the Internet. First over at GLA and then when I started frequenting GLF more I encouraged him to join Dave and me here. Kyle's GLF handle is Youngfish. In many ways he reminds me so much of myself although since I grew up a lot further from the big lake my fishing passion was first ignited by inland critters before the real bug hit with big lake salmon and steelhead. Summers were spent pestering my Dad to go to the big lake every week and since he was a teacher we did get to go a lot. In college my fishing nut roommate and I scheduled classes to allow us to head for the lake/river on Thursday afternoons to fish through Sunday mornings.

Kyle is taking it where I wish I could have. I really wish him all the best in this adventure. Nothing better than to be able to actually get paid to do your hobby. Now I just need to get some time available to go meet this young man in person and have him teach me a few things. Maybe get him out on the CATtitude Adjustment for some offshore fun.

I used something similar a long time ago. The heaviest that Yeck makes in that style is 10#. If your down rigger can handle something heavier, I'd go that way. At the very least I go 2# heavier on my probe rigger than the others. This keeps the blow-back about the same as the others.