Sixshooter

Fished this evening with my Wife Beverly, Uncle Rick, and TroutTracker.

We fished from around 6pm till darkish. Went 1 for 2.

First fish and only one landed was a spunky spring king probably around that 10lb area. It hit a rigger down 30 feet over 65 feet of water. Blueberry Muffin.

THe second hit was also on a rigger but we are not sure if it was a slider bite or a main line bite. There was one of the new moonshines on teh bottom...looks like a bloody nose sort of with red speckles. and the slider was a stinger spoon that had purple on both ends with metallic yellow in the middle and black dots. that rigger was down 35 over 50 foot of water.

We couldn't really get them going. Didn't hear much from the rest of the boats out there...it was not that busy...I think the wind scared a lot of people away...but the lake was very very fishable.

Don't feel bad Rick.

I bought a dozen walleye minnows and a dozen perch minnows. Went to Gun Lake...

I caught 10 undersized Northerns and that eliminated all of my walleye minnows. So then I went in search of some crappies...I caught a couple of largemouths, rock bass, and a few perch.

NO WALLEYES...there were a billion boats out there though...

Well Said Matt.

I'm in the same "boat" to say. I don't intend to ruffle any feathers and I don't have any axes to grind either. But I'm just interested in the topic because of what Matt has mentioned earlier. Being labeled as Unethical because I sometimes practice catch and release, and yet the same people saying the fish will die no matter what will just toss fish for money.

There is a fine line and I think we have opened a great discussion. We have a lot of members invovled in so far a civalized debate.

That is great to see.

And plus playing devils advocate sometimes is fun...If nothing else it makes everybody just think about this stuff...and perhaps if you were or are one of the anglers that fell strongly the fish will die no matter what may look at the research and look at it differently.

Or on the flip side. Perhaps there will be research somewhere stating that the fish WILL die...But I think salmon are hardier than what we give them credit for. I mean they enter the river and do not eat for weeks at a time....swimming through shallow water, rocks, trees, jumping waterfalls and dams. Getting attacked by birds, bears, and all sorts of other things yet they survive to drive up that river in 80 degree water and spawn.

That has to say something to the fishes ability to survive.

I'm in agreement with Hit Man on this one. These guys are on the water daily and see first hand what can happen over a much larger scale than us part timers. I have also heard from the many captains who expressed their sickening of these tournament practices and have lobbied for change for the good of the fish and fishery.

I have released many fish and they mostly seem to swim away and some have floated. If it is a legal fish why not keep it? When money and egos are on the line mainly, unless we are just fishing for fun not to keep anything. But all would agree that at least some of these fish will not make it. It comes down to an ethical debate in the end, mainly dependant on whether one thinks the fish will "make it". If we knew they would die would we release many? Or throw back dead ones to upgrade to a nicer fish? I don't think so.

Even our DNR plays devils advocate by the 3/2 limits they set. By only allowing 3 kings or fish of any species you must continue to fish to catch a full DNR limit. Many times the kings or coho are prevalent and even after switching programs for other species these species will be caught and released in pursuit of a full limit.

With that Thought though Timmy...Why do you catch and release those huge walleyes you do? Are you positive those fish survive when you release them?

Yeah I do have a great proofer. But I sure do take some damn sexy photos!!!!!

Thanks Matt.

I also remember several years ago In-Fisherman did a study on the catch and release of fish and how it effects them. They stated that a fish released into water that has a current recovered over twice as fast as a stagnent area.

And as we all know there is plenty of Current in Lake Michigan. In fact there is more down there than many realize. They stated it was, like Matt said, Fresh oxegenated water being basically forced through the gills of the fish, with the fish exerting minimal effort.

I would be interested to see what the biologist at Purdue has to say. But as of yet nobody has given scientific data that if the fish is handled and released correctly that it is for sure going to die like I have been told many of times.

Matt that fish hatchery story is great. And very true. Just think if all the wild strain steelhead in the little manistee river died because they used cotton gloves and STROKED the eggs and milt out of the fish....I never thought about that before.

Heck were just lucky the Kitty allowed us to clean it before she ate it....geesh....when she gets tearing in on a fish it gets messy....

Scott,

Give the fishdog guys a call...They may be able to hook you up.

Answer me this question if you will. Do all these "tournement" boats take the time to revive fish they throw back? Or do they unhook the fish and toss it over the side as quick as they can so they can get another rod down right now?

My guess is nobody is "waisting" time to revive the fish.

That is sad to here that fish are dying needlessly for the sake of money...Perhaps the contestants should protest the tourney if it is so bad...but that is for another topic.

I don't know the answers Mike....But a Salmon is definatly built differently than a perch.

Lets not forget that Salmon are originally from the Salt Water Oceans that dropp Miles and Miles and Miles deeper than our great lakes.

I would not be suprised if the salmon was built for quick changes in wet pressure.

I've read articles of the guys trolling for salmon on reefs that are 2000 feet under the surface.

Many predators in the ocean such as sharks will hang out in 60+ FOW and hug the bottom and watch the anchovies or whatever swim just below the surface. They will torpedo straight up and crash the bait on top.

there is some incredible footage of watching Great Whites do this with Seals and Sea Lions....They don't seem to die when they have sudden pressure changes.

But then again that is a difference between a salmon and a shark and their swim bladders.

There is also evidence of catching walleyes in Dakota on Devils lake where they will catch these fish in 60 FOW. but the release them just fine. But they use a technique called fizzing. They use a needle and insert it in a certain spot to deflate the air bladder, because it expands with the rappid pressure change. Once it is deflated the fish can go back to normal and keep itself right side up. But walleyes are not in the same hunting class as a salmon. nor are a walleye a fast swimmer...

You are right though most of the evidence so far would lead you to believe it is stream or river type fishing. Although the DNR report is VERY intriguing. I'm curious to read more on the topic.

when the fishing is HOT and the wife is barking out orders, I don't have time to keep a log book....Especially when I'm swabing the deck to get all of Beverlys fish blood off the floor.

One other thing that I have not seen mentioned in any studies that I have read is Mortality do to quick changes in water pressure.

A fish that is stacked in a 60 ft water column has around 25.98 lbs/in2 of force been applied to that fish. Now you bring that fish up to atmospheric pressure which is 14.7lbs/in2 @ 32 deg F. You are reducing the force applied to that fish by half with in a matter of minutes before that fish has time to adjust to the lesser pressure. This has to put a lot of stress on a fish mixed in with the changing of temps.

Steve what is atmospheric pressure at 70 Degrees F? I'm assuming the air pressure as well as wet pressure are all relative to temperature...

Good find Wife. That is interesting news from the Michigan DNR.

I was wondering where the path of this thread would take us. So far it is very supportive that you can successfully catch and release fish in the great lakes.

Is there dispelling proof out there to deter us from such activities, and nobody has found them yet?

I know I've been told many times by some very good fisherman that releasing fish they will die even if they swim away. Of course I have to look at them funny and I move on....I don't neccissarily believe them they do...and so far I'm thinking they were just going on something somebody else told them.

I know there is more information out there and I hope it comes to this thread. Thank you guys and gals for keeping this on track...A topic such as this one can so easily get out of hand with the matter of everybodies opinions.

Whats a trousertrouttracker? Ummmmm....care to explain this one Jim?

I would Mike...then I would get banned for compromising the decency of this family oriented fishing website.

Perhaps someday I can tell the story in person...actually it is funnier when Bev tells the story.

Heck I don't even know.

I'd say a half dozen or so coho's

hald dozen lakers or so

couple kings

and a few browns

no steelhead so far though.

I should note that out of the fish I have listed up there. I think I reeled in about 4 of them....The wife gets credit for the rest.

Heck I don't even know.

I'd say a half dozen or so coho's

hald dozen lakers or so

couple kings

and a few browns

no steelhead so far though.

One more thing:

There is a feature article on Leacore as well.

You can read it here:

http://www.greatlakesfisherman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451

Good article Steve. That is nice Salmon over 18 inches have around a 90% survival rate when released.

I don't recall if that is the same article that Butch posted on or not. I can't seem to find it. Perhaps if he reads this thread he can add to it.

What I am asking is for some proof. Not just opinions on the matter. An opinion is okay as long as there is PROOF behind it for this question.

A HUGE debate in great lakes fishing is if released fish survive or not!

What I want to know is where is the proof that a fish absolutely dies after you release it? How do we know? Is there some studies out there that prove this? It seems to me that Butch had a study on the subject that said they survival rate for a salmon was over 80%.

I'm just very curious as to where/how this conseption of if you catch a salmon it is going to die came about. Is it just hear say and we believed it and ran with it because to us it made sense?

Your pulling a fish up out of deep water it is warm the fish builds up lactic acid gets a charlie horse and dies....I don't know of anybody that has died due to a charlie horse...Might be sore for a few days but that is about it.

Is there any hard facts to base the opinion on, or is it just because it is something we have heard. Because frankly I don't see that many dead fish floating around while fishing.

Steve Arend came up with a GREAT IDEA for threading braids into the dacron backing. Use a small sewing needle...works great...and you don't have to wait for the glue to dry...And by the way Elmers glue the old fashion white stuff...works good to if you decide to go that way.

EDIT: PS. If you are tying the willis knot with super lines use a DOUBLE willis knot. Basically the same thing only use two of the overhands.

Thanks Darrin....I even drew the picture all by myself....

I just follow Adjusted3 around and fish next to him.

I've seen her kill for less than that Kenny...hehe....beware...

We were okay with that Matt....Since the next closest crew we talked to reported 0.

It was a wonderful day on the water indeed.

Unfortunatly I'm on call this weekend so if I fish it will probably be for panfish around home somewhere.

Can't wait for the fishing to start. I better get to work on my boat.