southtrollsouth

No.....

A lot more fun catching them when you can see them in daylight IMO. Not sure why anyone would want to fish in the dark??

Wire can go bad for a variety of reasons, kinks and stress near or around knots are the biggest issues. In your situation it also sounds like you have some cross over/under issues which can really only be fixed by a re-spool.

Overhand knot in wire should never break..

Our (Blood Run) 30lb test .015 inch 1x7 strand stress relieved wire has a breaking strength of 38.4lbs and is regularly tested during our spooling process.

nice hat Ken. nice shirt Jon. not a bad looking cooler either!

Thank you for the kind words about our products, it is greatly appreciated. Most of what has been said here is true, and as always there is a good amount of opinion, hopefully we can address some of this in this post.

Our copper fishing line is specifically manufactured for Blood Run based upon our field testing, and it is not the same wire used by our competitors. Our primary competitors all make excellent products of which we still personally use regularly in field testing against our products. Each has its own pliability, usability and fishability characteristics. Whichever line you are most comfortable fishing with is the right line for you, whether it is Blood Run or another brand.

Before we introduced our products, we fished over 25 different twist rates and diameter combinations on several charter and recreational boats for 3 years before we ended up with our final product. We believe our product to be the closest to being the most user friendly copper fishing line on the market.

We introduced the 32lb copper as a replacement for short leadcore segments due to requests by our customers and field testers who had success with it over short leadcore. The fishing dynamics of short copper segments compared to short leadcore segments are in fact different. This, coupled with the smaller reel requirement, with smaller levelwind guides (need for small knots), and smaller reel capacities have validated this marketplace for us with the smaller diameter product. Numerous fisherman, both professional and recreational can attest to its ability to outfish short leadcore in many situations.

Our larger diameter copper is heavier duty, ideal for larger reels with big levelwind guides and capacities. It is not the ideal choice for anglers fishing top water or skinny water for light fighting species like coho, browns and steelhead. This is where the smaller diameter copper shines.

Depth charts are not an exact science, and there are plenty of examples where in fact the smaller and larger diameter coppers run very close to each other in certain conditions. Orientation into, across, or with the underwater currents is the single most important variable to how and where copper fishes. You will notice that copper outproduces divers and riggers trolling in certain directions, then it does in others. This has much to do with its resistance (or lack thereof) in the water, and ultimately impacts its true running depth. Obviously speed, lure, leader material, leader length all play an important role as well.

We continue to work at improving our products, and sharing our tactics for success with our customers to enable them to put more fish in the box. Better knots, different types of planer boards, certain segments of certain diameters in certain situations are examples of information we try to bring to the marketplace every day through our field staff members fishing reports to make our customers more successful on the water.

Feel free to contact us at any time for questions or comments about our products...

great idea!

I can't say in any kind of honesty that when I have my wire diver back 300ft that it's ACTUALLY 300ft. Line counters aren't even close IMO, better for repeatablity than measuring feet.

Linecounters are more accurate than believed when your reels are packed fully to the top or even above the spool. We consistently test this with large measuring tapes out to even 700 feet and the quality linecounters at least on Shimano's are within a couple of feet.

Anything less than full, like 100 feet from full, linecounters are worthless especially when comparing against depth charts.

As long as you have sufficient backer you shouldn't have a problem

for now, until you have a tangle or some issue which requires you to cut back 100+ feet of wire and now you are working with < 400 feet. Fish summer and your wires are out 300 feet to start with and you have slim margin on a nice fish. You really never ever want to see your backer to wire knot hit the water.

work with it for now, but if you lose any, go and get at least 700 feet put on..

What kind of knot would you use to tie wire to braid without the wire cutting right through the braid. I have to admit, thats the reason I've never felt comfortable running wire because I felt everytime I sent out a dipsy on a 1 1/2 setting it would cut right through my rigger rods and lose my tackle.

albright knot for backer to wire, just take your time and cinch down good so your wraps dont slide up over your albright loop.

wire will not cut through braid, unless you and your buddy grabbed both ends of the wire and purposely sawed it across a tight strung piece of braid, just not going to happen.

We run two wire divers a side, as many now do, on 1.5 right off your riggers and 1) they never come close to touching and 2) would not cut even if they did based upon the above..

Good luck!

Thats the norm...

Iv'e been hearing this lately. What size swivel seems to be the consensus?

I assume you put the copper through the swivel and twist it around itself a few times? Or am I way off here?

Copper to swivels can and does work. Loop through the swivel twice, then haywire twist the remaining piece back up the main copper line. Shrink wrap over the area after the swivel (over your haywire twists) helps ensure that the strands of copper do not separate. Whenever you loop or bend stranded wire of any kind, it releases the pressure on the natural twist. Best to retwist tight after you tie the knot and keep an eye on the area, unless shrinkwrapped which will keep the twist tight.

Bretts Place on the Bay has them online. Awesome releases...we use them..

We will be switching over from Talora's to Custom Eyeful/Blood Run wire diver rods this year. The Talora's performed well, but as discussed wire can and will jump off the rollers. Tony's Blood Run wire diver rods do not have roller guides, but a different guide material that cannot be cut by wire. There is a premium swivel roller tip (aftco I believe) on the end of the rod for reading the current, but those roller tips are constructed differently than the ones on Taloras which should stop the wire jumping off the roller.

Not sure what they are pricing at, probably high end, but wire diver rods being as important as they are for reading the current and your speed should demand the highest quality rod designed with the right amount of flex and stiffness as possible.

Not sure how to post pics here, but I do have some of the Blood Run custom wire rods from Tony...

One last comment and then i am out of here. I never said i was quitting wire line. I was just stating that there is a place for braid also and what some guys have noticed. I have to much invested in 4 rods to give up on it and it does work. I was just trying to point out that it may be at times more beneficail to use it. Sorry i even brought it up.

Never be sorry to bring anything up, its good to keep a persons mind working on this stuff. Programs are different around the lakes, everyone has their preference. There are charter guys who troll around in Lake O with 5-6 riggers and rods sticking straight up in the air like porcupines, then there are guys like down in Holland/GH/Saug that only run 3 riggers with their rods bent in half with tips dragging in the water. Everyone is different on what/how they run spreads.

It never hurts to experiment, but figure out what works on each individual boat, not just do something because a charter is doing it. Sometimes alot of it is BS, sometimes that what you hear only works on a certain boat, and not others.

Definitely work on your diver program, whether its braid or wire or mix. If you dont have your divers rocking, your whole program will be off. Divers create the bite.

rigger bites have slowed noticeably for top charters the past few years for a good reason, and its not wire divers. Some guys have figured out why their riggers have slowed, made adjustments, and have them rocking again. Those who have not figured it out are looking for answers, and possibly at wire divers because they are the next closest rod to the spread. What they did not tell you is that they wont end up pulling away from wire divers because they are still the hottest rods on just about any boat who knows how to fish them. I would not pull out my hottest rods to try and turn on my dead rods. I would figure out why my dead rods are dead, and make the adjustment. I have faith they will figure it out eventually...

This isnt just LAST YEAR i said in my first post over the last three seasons. I know last year was a messed year. Even when conditions were right i have noticed that the one half core was out producing my two 75 coppers.

half core runs at 20feet down, 75 copper is at 15 feet. Sometimes those slight differences make all the difference, especially fishing topwater. I have had the same lure on all ten coppers and fish would only pick one particular length segment out of the lineup consistently and snub all the others..running within five feet of each other in the water column.

wire divers

we usually use a little bit (75') of mono to keep tight on the spool, then put 1000' feet of wire on.

Join Host Aaron Sybesma of Lakeshore Outfitters in Saugatuck Michigan on Wednesday March 9 at 5pm at the Holland Fish and Game Club located at 10840 Chicago Drive, Zeeland, MI 49464-9126.

Sponsored by Fishing 411 TV, Okuma, Blood Run Tackle, Lakeshore Outfitters, Silver Streak and Offshore Tackle.

Tickets are $10 at the door, please RSVP at the Blood Run Tackle Facebook Page..and send them a friend request!

Show times are 5 pm through 9 pm. There will be a social hour between 5 and 6 pm with a raffle and giveaways provided by our sponsors. Sponsors will have product displays and Pro Staff members available for Q & A throughout the seminar.

Speakers begin at 6pm, featuring Mark Romanack of Fishing 411 Television covering topics such as Lake Michigan Salmon Fishing, Copper Fishing with Planers, Diver Fishing with wire and other related topics.

Captain Gregg Mariuz of Profishient Charters will discuss early spring salmon fishing programs for South Lake Michigan including Copper setups, diver programs, lures, trolling techniques and general Copper rigging related topics.

Come join us on Wednesday March 9 at the Holland Fish and Game Club in Zeeland.

This is soooooo false! We were part of the first batch of guys to run copper on Lake Ontario, and probably one of the first to run it down on the west end of lake O. Learned from guys like Ernie Langtene of Fish Doctor charters in Oswego, NY. Copper is waaaaay softer than wire we use for divers. If the wire divers dont put sharp spots in eyelets (not made of metal) then copper surely wont. I have run wire divers for the past 3 or 4 seasons on Daiwa's diver rods with NO twilli tip, and there is NO sharp spots or wear spots on them whatsoever. The only reason you would need big eyes on your copper rods would be if your using big swivels to connect your copper to your mono and backing. Albright knots are small, and the Spro swivels are also fairly small.

On Lake O A-TOM-MIK or Fish Doctor copper is run by prolly 95% of the boats. These guys buy thier copper specifically for themselves, and it comes down to how many twist per inch or foot (I cant remember). One 45lb coppers sink rate isn't equal to another manufactures 45lb copper. The tighter the twist the heavier the copper is per foot. So, if your not fishing a similar copper to the rest of the boats around you your 350' might not be getting down to where the other boats hot 350' copper is. Just something to remember.

Twist rates do vary, but impact only the usability and fishability of the copper, very little on the sink rate. So many other factors play a much more significant role in where copper is running in the water column compared to twist rate. How fast are you trolling, into the current, with the current, cross the current, flasher (big or small), plug, spoon, and what type of leader. Fluoro sinks, mono adds buoyancy, etc.

At the end of the day, other than in specific situations where you are fishing during spring with spoons in the top 40 feet with little more than subtle sub surface currents do you really know where copper is exactly pulling (or leadcore for that matter, or divers for that matter!)

A guy can go drag a 450 copper with a spoon trolling north next to a guy dragging a 450 copper (same manufacturer) with a flasher going south, and neither is anywhere near each other despite what others may think.

Fish the water column in thirds, and stuff the active strike box (third) with as many segmented coppers as you can without creating a mess for yourself, and catch fish.

The Pic is from Profishient Charters/Blood Run Tackle web site. They look like Talora rods. Most likely 9'6" and 8'0"

This shows a better angle.

I would go with 1.5' difference min. I had two sets of 10' rods last year, and it made setting the outside rod very hard. Now I have 8'-0" for the inside, and it works great.

Those are Talora 10's and 9's. We have used 9's and 8'6s before, even two tens without issue. Longer is better for reading your divers angle in the current..

Gregg

nope i can account for many lakers at speed close to 4mph and i no a good charter capt that can also. He shown me how to do it.

ssshhh DD, that's Uncle Don's secret sauce!

They are great riggers, never had an issue. I have a deal with another manufacturer now for riggers.

the ball cradle/rod holders have been sold, riggers are still available...thanks!