southtrollsouth

what this 60lb all about and when its coming out..

60lb Copperâ„¢ from Blood Run Tackle was introduced at the Grand Rapids Outdoor show two weeks ago. It is designed to replace longer segments of lighter copper lines (45 and 32) with shorter segments to attain the same or deeper depths. Depth testing on the 60lb Copperâ„¢ took place last summer and will begin again this spring to confirm when at that point final dive curve numbers will be released.

Facebook page has retailer availability . Gold coast should have a couple this week.

Southtroll,

What is your facebook page? Do you have a link?

Here you go Jason...thanks

www.facebook.com/bloodruntackle

At this point we do not know for sure the sink rate other than it is definitely deeper and potentially significantly deeper. We will be pulling some official numbers in April or early May. From fishing it last year we have some thoughts, but that occurred during heavy summer currents. The baseline numbers will come this spring on zero current conditions.

We will make an announcement on early availability sometime this week on our facebook page. There is now very very limited quantity available after what we sold at the GR show. It most likely will sell out this week through our facebook page.

We will not begin new production until after we get the real depth numbers so there will be zero availability for a month or so after this first batch sells this week.

General availability most likely will be sometime in early June.

I totally agree with Nailer, If you were a charter captain, and catching fish is you full time job, than the Smart Troll would be a tool and a right off, as far as a sportsman this whole sport of fishing is getting out of hand, these people are brain washing the sportsman into thinking you just have to get the newest, fastest, best of everything, and it's taking a toll on our wallets, buy not letting us just enjoy the day without worrying about where the next dollar is comming from for the next tank of fuel. Lets all take a deep breath, and think what did we do 20 years ago, we all caught fish and had a GOOD TIME!! Lets get back to the basics and enjoy the time we have with our friends and family, I don't know about all the tricks to the trade, and I don't have the need to be reeling in a fish every 10 minutes, when I'm out on the water with friends and family I'm on cloud 9, no phone ringing,nobody getting under my skin just having FUN!! Lets keep it that way.

True that technology and information overload has taken us to the edge...but...most guys have a significant investment in their fishing operations, both time and $$. If guys set a goal of fishing 20 times a year, in reality they will only get out 12 times due to weather or other issues. Now, they have put themselves under tremendous pressure to go out and bang as many fish as possible, and rightly so. They (rec fishermen) were the ones who pushed for a 5 fish limit...and got it. So, if technology or advanced gear or equipment can get that guy closer to banging his limit every time, then he has found his return on investment. If only little investment, then little return. Personally I think too many anglers spend too much time going to seminars and spending $$ trying to duplicate ridiculously complex programs when they should be spending time figuring out the basics like trolling angle and speed. I see some kind of investment on speed/temp information as being hugely critical and worthy of that investment. Guarantee if you have that information and actually know how to interpret it...increase in catch rate of 50% easy. We have that technology and understand what it tells us far beyond just the numbers. Now knowing what is happening just by watching rods has got us to the point of relying on it less and less..but we still had to learn it.

We too have spent considerable time speaking with Mark and others who have swam behind copper and leadcore. At this point, all of which we believe, hypothesize and presume is conjecture. The closer to the truth information will come out here shortly.

We plan to go all in on a 6 probe system and pull multiple copper and leadcores (traditional vs "new") of the same length very early this spring in as close to "no current" situations as we can to get a baseline on different speeds, reaction to speed changes, reactions to turns and different bait types (spoons vs flashers).

As is known, 90% of the fishing most of us do are in significant current situations that are present on most great lakes during summer months. We expect to see wild fluctuations in running depths based upon current bands in the water column and temperature gradients throughout the day. This should present stark contrast to data pulled in very early spring offshore in zero current.

Once we can get those observations it should be pretty obvious to most that there will be no definitive depth chart that will be accurate in all situations. Most of know this now, still some hold on to the thought that their X copper runs at Y depth all the time regardless of speed or direction...which is not true.

It will all come back to fishing zones in the water column that have active fish, and putting as much gear into it as possible...regardless of how many feet of line you have let out.

Since so many of you are copper lovers I want to experiment running copper on one side of the boat and lead on the other. I am keeping my 300' but plan on spooling the rest up new with 45# copper and want them to run the same as my 10 color, 7 color and 5 color. What lengths do I need to run these depths.

You would likely be looking at a 100, 150 and 200 copper to fish similar to your short lead setups. We will be testing with the new smart troll device in the coming months and reporting back on how close they are.

We are dropping off 20,000 feet of copper tomorrow and a bunch of stainless.....our goal is to duct tape Nate to the stool next to the spooling machine

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since your looking for a list..at least one of these spoons are out every trip and very rarely let me down...all silver streaks..from left to right..t-rex,kevorkian glowback,blueberry muffin,hat trick,miami dolphin,moldy muffin,veggie delight,hot mango,blue mango,lemonberry and panty ho.

Hat trick was unstoppable

It should be interesting to validate our observations with regards to how much current and temperature layers impact the ability of your gear to fish where you want it to fish. We have long known of leadcores inability to successfully penetrate different temperature layers, and of coppers ability to do so. We have also known that your program can change dramatically depthwise when you "turn" to go back to fish. Your hot diver out 200 is not in the same place it was after you did a 180 turn and are now going a different direction in the current.

While it will be useful to see what is really happening down below, it most likely will not be a tool used to make continuous adjustments to your program . Divers and coppers will move up and down fairly regularly, and trying to adjust your entire program just because one of your rods goes off every time the depth measurement says X number could be quite maddening. As a rule now, we know when a rod gets hot, we have a general idea of where in the water column it is, and we make sure we have a number of other rigs in that same vertical layer.

It could be found that use of this device on multiple rods would be the equivalent of trying to walk down a sidewalk only looking through a magnifying glass, rather than taking into account the entire picture around you. Adjusting your program to only fish at X depth or X temperature will severely limit a guys ability to catch active fish wandering through other layers of the water column.

With that said, we hope to get our hands on one to validate what we have experienced in the past. I imagine the fixation on "where my copper is" or "how far down my diver is" will largely go by the wayside as they should be found to be wandering rigs that cover a whole layer of the water column rather than running at just a specific depth.

Last year was my first year running copper. While my 200' and 150 ran good, my 250 and 300' had on occasion weeds and Zebra mussels on them.

How are you guy deploying them so they do not fall to the bottom. I was getting stuff on them in 100-140 FOW.

I let the water pull the copper off the reel as we move. do I need to tighten the spool a little to keep them up in the water a little or is there something else I'm missing..

As the guys mentioned above with regards to deploying. It just does not seem right that you are putting copper on the bottom when you are deploying, unless you are trolling .5 miles an hour. Even then, there is some resistance moving forward and even with the fastest deploy its just not going to sink that fast in 100-140 fow, with only 250-300 feet of copper out. The average depth rate for those segments are only 50-70 feet down depending on current and troll speed. That steep of angle to put those on the bottom would not be possible at a reasonable rate of troll like 2.5 sog trolling straight.

The majority of times when guys come up with stuff from the bottom is because of turning, particularly hairpin turning. Tight turns are a huge no-no with copper, which will sink very fast once deployed particularly on an inside turn. We rarely ever turn the boat period, but when we do, it is very very wide and at a high rate of speed to keep our gear "up". If you are a guy that likes to turn alot, lighter copper will benefit as it wont sink as quickly on an inside turn. Heavier copper does not give you that luxury. Also, try to turn to the outside rather than towards shore, and bump your speed up. Hope that helps!

Had the same conversation the other day with some Lake O guys. They don't fish out of temp hi water fish before dark with plugs, etc. very much at all like some of us do. Lake O guys seem to really want to target way deep fish, never thinking you can catch kings 20 feet down at 530 am on a 100 copper with a plug in 70 degree water, and then again at 11 am when they come back up from the bottom to feed. I cannot image salmon having that different of feeding patterns between great lakes. Maybe saltwater with tides, etc.

Both previous responses were great.

Salmon eat to survive, they don't spend much time reviewing what's on the menu. If they are there, and hungry, and you are pulling your program the way it should be it really doesn't matter what you have in the water.

Thanks for all of the info! As I have done more research, allow me to ask about stainless. When looking at blood run's website I saw it there. Any opinions or thoughts?

Dan feel free to give a call at 616-439-0438. A few of the Pro Staff guys are hanging around the office the next week or two and would be happy to walk you through some scenarios to get you heading the right direction.

We have been out of salmon fishing for quite some time. We are getting back in again. It used to be all down riggers and dipsy's. Now everyone is talking copper and lead. However, it seems more are talking copper than lead now. We have most everything purchased except for the rods reels and line. Leaning towards okuma convectors, but want input on rigging them. Lead? Copper? Type? Lengths? Fishing out of Grand Haven if that helps.

Thanks.

Plenty of good things for both depending on the situation. You are pretty close to the Outdoorsmen Pro Shop in Jenison. You should swing up there with and have a talk with Nate. He is a very knowledgeable fisherman and can go over what/how much line he could get on each type of reel, advantages of each kind, as well as good pricing. You are probably wise to hang tight on purchases until the Grand Rapids Outdoor show, I know they have some very very good deals on combos rigged up and ready to go.

My winter project is to retie all my flies with new leaders. My questions are:

1) What pound test and type of mono?

2) What length has been your boats most consistent producer?

3) Once done, what is the best way to store them?

4) Single or treble hook?

Thanks everyone

Lots of very good responses here. Mono vs fluoro is a topic unto its own. Hard to nail a consistent length as it all depends if you are a fast or slow program guy. All consistent fisherman pull fly's all of the same length, and stick to their program day in and day out. Storage advice is to wrap if you use mono as it won't retain memory, fluoro is best hang straight or under slight tension to avoid memory. Single treble only on our boats, goal is to bury all three hooks in its snout and keep the fish' mouth completely shut. In this scenario you are basically drowning the fish and by forcing it to swim towards you in order for it to keep oxygen going through its gills. Any other hook drags the fish at an angle, which creates leverage for the fish to spin the hook. 20+ lb kings come in like 2lb pike when their mouths are clamped shut, and only a single treble can accomplish this.

Why???

I guess I haven't seen the light yet. For 30 years or so I have used big boards and mast and find no fault in them. Yes I have and use inlines on occasion but never seen any benefit to them that makes them superior to running the big boards. Call me old fashioned but I really despise having to stop bringing the fish in to unclip a board off the line .... especially if the fish decides it is time to make another power run while attempting to remove the board. And I still love the sound of a fish ripping the line from the tether and shaking the mast

Inlines are an huge step up from big boards if for nothing else it tells you if you are pulling the correct angle into the current. Pulling the correct angle into the current is the single most important factor between catching 5 fish or 30 fish. Watch your inlines, they tell all. The more you have out the better!

The last charter we ran last year, we had 400, 450 and 500 coppers out each side of the boat on TX44's, and wire divers out 300 on the low and 400 on the highs. If a fish hits the high, just grab it and move over to the other side of your boat and fight the fish towards that direction. We crank our drags however so there is no way the fish isn't going the direction we want it to. If you are a loose drag guy, you will lose that fish up into your copper for sure.

Thanks everyone for your input on the product. I ordered a couple spools of Blood Run wire. Thanks for the suggestions on how to run it and set it up as well.

Thanks for the support Bob. Give us a call with any questions, issues or concerns..and post some successful pics on our fb page this summer!

just once through and a single overhand not for me

Same here. Least amount of bends and stress as possible in the knot.

I have one of thos berkley line counters that clamp to the rod and have a sheet printed from the calculator on my different reels so if i do loose something i look at my sheet clamp on the counter and fill to capacity properly every time. Line counter is 13 bucks at bass pro and well worth it for making up rigs. 45 lb copper and lead core work through it also. Dont get the rapala or shakespear as copper wont work through those.

Forget that reverse rewinding your wasting time that you could be fishing.

Those counters work great, we use them all the time to calculate backer fill and when we lose some copper on the boat and need to figure out how much we have left and how much to add via repair.

Most of the 30lb wire out there is fairly good quality. There are different grades of steel, we (Blood Run) use 316 grade on our 30lb which is a little more durable than the 304 grade used on our 20lb. Diameters are the same, but breaking strength/durability is different. 20lb is for walleye guys pulling small divers and direct tied crankbaits (with a leader) and breaks in the mid 20lb range. 30lb is for salmon guys pulling big divers with flashers, etc. It breaks between 40lbs and 43lbs. A few different things can be done with how the wire is twisted to resist against kinking, but at the end of the day small dia wires can kink.

We have fished our wire all season long with kinks and have had very few breakoffs over the years in those scenarios. Always good to check around your knots and crimps periodically, and re-tie every dozen trips or so. Most pressure and twisting comes at that location.

Any wire, including copper, over time does weaken from stress. After two seasons you should be looking to re-spool.

I'm glad the shows are on, but honestly I'm not all that impressed. If they actually showed something about how they do the fishing -- methods, lures, reasoning behind decisions... it would offer a whole lot more value. Heck they spent very little time showing anything about what Living The Dream did -- one shot of Willis fighting a fish.

My other complaint is that it does not really show the real results of the 333 contest, let alone the whole Tournament Trail event at the port. For this week's show, Living The Dream was the top boat shown and from the show you would assume they "won" the 333 for the port, but they actually only finished 6th (333 St. Joe results).

Better than nothing, but could be much better in my view.

It's definitely angled towards tournament savvy fishermen. Anyone who spends time tournament fishing knows exactly what the program is down there, and all the teams featured discussed at length their decision making process. Big trout offshore, king numbers inside. Methods and techniques are no different than any other day....run your king program inside, run a trout program outside. The lures they used and rods that caught fish were very obvious to see. I would say the show is more for tournament strategy than for the average guy, who is not going to run 30 miles to go catch 20lb lake trout..or pull off a hot king bite because the average size is too small. For entertainment purposes only..

An embarrassing situation for the tournament dq'ing a team with the pierheads behind a phone showing 1 pm. Otherwise a great episode!

looks like ill be fishing north more:grin:

Why would you do that? Fishing is about as easy as it gets out of Muskegon.