Walleye Express

Nice job Dan! Do you know where the walleye with the band came from?

99.9% are taged at the Dow Dam in Midland. Neither mark or I had a pen to write down the number, so he went back with the others. I guess as an after thought, we might have removed the tag and turned in the info, but we didn't.

Mark/Reel Fishin was feeling a littlle sick this morning, so we decided not to troll at all and jig fished a new spot close to the ramp for whatever would bite, in case he got worse. Caught lots of sheeps, cats, whites, along with a Master Angler Crappie that hit the cooler. Only caught 3 keeper walleyes and one shorty. All were released to fight again another day. One was wearing some jewlery.

GJ again Dan. WTG The only BOGUS part of this report is the date. You are sooooooo good you are now fishing one day into the future. LOL Keep hammering them.

Yup......that's just like me. Wake up 3 days in a row before 7:00am and my whole world gets turned up-side-down. Come to look at it, my other "bonanza" post was a day a head of time as well. The only way to fix it and bring the Time space continuum back into order is to go fishing again yesterday in the same spot that I fished tomorrow. :confused:

I will not blame anybody if they think this report is bogus. Fact is, I'd think it was fabricated myself if I had not been part of it this morning. I will also say this, "Get ready Saginaw" because they are headed your way in BIG numbers and they are much bigger fish then last years.

Me and my bud Reel Fishin started out trolling lead core as usual right at daylight this morning. But instead of trolling along breaks I/we decided to try trolling on some flats off the channel. Trolled for a 1/2 mile and I hooked and then lost a nice fish behind the boat. Not marking many fish on these flats like we did yesterday, we headed for our old steep ledge spot from yesterday. Mark just got his core out and bang, a 5 pounder. Two more passes and we had 3 nice walleyes in the cooler. But the north wind went from 7mph to around 20 in short order and the wind coming up river made boat control a nightmare, so we decided to call it a short day. Both Marks wife and mine are on the mend from recent surgeries, so any reduced fishing time goes in the bank.

But as often hapens, on the way back to the ramp at no-wake speed, we came across this point in 23 FOW and the graph went crazy with baitfish and huge hooks on it. Knowing we only had another 45 minutes to an hour to fish reguardless, I decided to anchor on this spot and quarter cast to it with knuckleball jigs and gulp minnows. My first cast towards shore and bang, about a 7 pounder. Next cast bang, a 5 pounder. Long story short I made 6 casts and had 4 beautiful fish. But it didn't stop there. Mark repositioned himself in the boat and he started hammering them as well. I cannot say for sure but I think 13 was the last count before we had to go. Mark added 2 smaller ones to the 3 we had for a limit. And all the fish I caught were released. I won't be keeping anymore until I eat or we can some of the ones I've taken home recently. You can just make out the big one swimming away in one of the pictures.

GJ on the eyes. Looks like they were inhaling the lures.

Yupper, they sure were Frank.

Part of the technique is pumping the rod as you troll, so you can tell if the lure is fouled or not. 2 or 3 colors of lead core out reduces the feel/vibration you get to your hands from the lure through the rod butt, so pumping it and creating a more severe vibration is the best way to tell if the lure is still running clean. This big guy deep throated the lure on the fall after a pump, and must have been coming up fast from the rear. Rough part was I had the rod at arms length above my head, almost behind my back, working the lure up on a steep ledge when he hit. Jammed me a good one.

Did a short 3 hour trip this morning on the Saginaw River with my buddy Reel Fishin. Jigged with Knucklballs and Gulps for almost 2 hours in different spots on the river while only having 2 short bumps. And with all the balls of baitfish from top to bottom, along with the huge inverted Check Marks we were seeing under them, we couldn't figure out why we couldn't get anything too go. Well, tomorrow morning we're just going to start with lead core and cut down on the jigging rod room in the boat. Why argue with success.

Big fish was just touching the 27 inch mark. And you can see they were not to shy about hitting the #5's today. That big fish jammed me good as I pumped and had the rod lifted way over my head as the core and Rap climbed the ledge we were fishing.

News article and my answer to it taken off another board.

Angling for Access

Recreation fishing interests see task force as major threat to impose closures

By Robert Montgomery

Special to ESPNOutdoors.com

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Until recently, threats to fishing access have been so diverse and so scattered that they have not raised collective concern among anglers.

Why should fishermen in Maine worry that the state of California has closed waters around the Channel Islands? Why should Texans be upset that the National Park Service blocked surf casters from reaching the beaches of Cape Hatteras National Seashore in North Carolina?

With the recent creation of a federal Interagency Ocean Policy Task Force, however, anglers should be genuinely concerned about the future availability of their favorite waters — whether freshwater or salt — according to leaders in the recreational fishing industry.

"It's time for fishermen to pay attention," said Chris Horton, national conservation director for BASS. "Right now, this is all an administrative directive with no accountability or oversight and no real public input, and that's scary."

President Barack Obama quietly created the task force with a June 12 memo. Staffed with "senior policy-level officials" from Interior, Commerce, Agriculture, Homeland Security and other departments and agencies, the task force provides a structure and a mechanism for closures of sport fisheries not only in the blue and coastal waters of oceans, but inland, starting with the Great Lakes.

Of course, that is not the stated intent. The President said it was created "To succeed in protecting the oceans, coasts, and Great Lakes, the United States needs to act within a unifying framework under a clear national policy, including a comprehensive, ecosystem-based framework for the long-term conservation and use of our resources."

Yet those with interests in recreational fishing say early indications are that many in the administration want to take it in the direction of recreational fishing closures under the guise of better protecting those resources. They claim evidence of that can be seen in the task force's Interim Report, released on Sept. 10.

"We are completely baffled as to why the task force failed to acknowledge or include any mention of the key aspects of recreational fishing that were presented to them in detail on more than one occasion," said Phil Morlock, director of environmental affairs for Shimano American Corp./Shimano Canada Ltd. "The significant number of jobs and the economy that more than 60 million American anglers support, and the major conservation efforts by people who fish in all regions of the country, were completely ignored.

"No distinction between the obvious dramatic differences between recreational fishing and commercial harvest methods was made. This is the result of a 90-day fire-drill process, as ordered by the President that, not surprisingly, lacks balance, clarity, and quality in the end product.

"People who simply want to take their kids fishing deserve better from their government."

Mirroring other "fire-drill" initiatives that this administration has undertaken, the task force was given 90 days to develop the interim report and additional 90 days to come up with a framework "for effective coastal and marine spatial planning."

In addition to embracing the idea of protected areas in Great Lakes, the memo stated that management be "consistent with international law, including customary international law as reflected by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea."

The U.S. has not signed that international agreement.

"Any treaty signed by the United States takes precedence over U.S. law," Morlock said. "We could be ceding jurisdiction — and access — to the U.N."

Horton said the administrative bureaucracy is reaching into what traditionally has been state jurisdiction.

"Thanks to programs like Wallop-Breaux, paid by anglers, and Pittman-Robertson, paid by hunters, the states have done a good job of managing resources," he said. "They're in the best positions to make decisions on the ground."

Once a beachhead has been established in the Great Lakes, however, "there's not a chance that it will stop there," Morlock said, adding that inland lakes, reservoirs, and streams could see closures under this new federal strategy.

"This is very serious," added Jim Martin, director of the Berkley Conservation Institute and board chairman of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. "Seventy percent of all freshwater angler days come from lakes and reservoirs that operate at the mercy of water managers.

"It's something that we take for granted. Until now, we've believed that places like Table Rock and Guntersville always will be there for us. But we can't be complacent. Policies can change."

And those policies can be changed by people who don't know — or don't want to know — that sport fishermen are at the forefront of conservation efforts in oceans and inland waters.

"What people have to realize is the more you eliminate recreational angling, the more you eliminate a data source for good management and a monetary investment in the resource," said Gordon Robertson of the American Sportfishing Association.

Since 1952, anglers have given more than $5 billion through excise taxes on fishing equipment to the Sport Fish Restoration program, also known as Wallop-Breaux. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service then distributes that money to the states for aquatic education, boating safety, access enhancement, and fisheries research and management.

Instead of acknowledging this value, though, some environmental activists want to close fisheries for agenda-driven symbolic reasons, with no scientific justification. And, despite the obvious differences, they continue to reference "fishing" as if commercial and recreational are one and the same in terms of methods and impact on resources.

"Environmentalists started that and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (a key member of the task force) has picked up on it," Morlock said.

"Overfishing," too, resonates with many who rightly believe that the oceans are in trouble, and they are correct in believing that problems do exist with some ocean stocks, according to Robertson.

"Marine Protected Areas and even closures, have a place," he said. "But there's clearly a problem in that people don't know about all the good that recreational fishermen have done for the resource and how resilient fisheries are."

What can be done about those who refuse to see and/or acknowledge the importance of recreational fishing and the value that it brings to management of our waters?

"It's going to be nearly impossible to change the perspective of people on the task force," Horton said. "The saving grace is that anglers can write to their members of Congress and insist on oversight.

"There's supposedly public input into this process, but we haven't seen it," he added. "There has been no opportunity to sit down with these people and come up with a collaborative policy.

"Right now, there's just a bunch of federal administrators accepting comments. And as we saw in the Interim Report, they didn't use what we told them earlier."

My post.

This has been going on in a "Micro" manner for years now in many (if not all) states. Small, isolated public accesses sites very near lakes, rivers or along beaches are (under our noses) being slowly but steadily sold off and/or pinched between private properties. All have been slowly but steadily strangled off by State, County or Local officials to supliment their failng budgets. In others words, selling our public water access lands. Then the next thing you know, theres a private propery sign at the ramp you launched at for years and years, placed there illegally by some land owner who don't like the sound of launching boats at 5:00 am in the morning near his house. Some concerned people will then investigate and/or complain, others will simply quit showing up to fish there. I can think of 3 such spots just off the top of my head right now. One on Houghton Lake that took a court ordered injuction to keep it open, even though it was a County launch. The State itself does the same thing. It bought and closed a sliver of land that was a popular Saginaw Bay ice access point this past winter, because to many people were using it and parking on the ice and not paying the State Park fee to park in their parking lot. As our sport steadily shrinks from lac of interest, it's going to be a harder and harder fight to keep these places open for us to enjoy.

He would not like me netting either Adam. Always head first for me as well. It's all about timing the forward momentum of the fish, and quick, deep sweeping thrusts IMV. Can't think of a single specie of Fish of any kind that swims backwards even a fraction as good as it does forward. Touch them anywhere from the dorsal fin back with any part of the net while netting from the back, and you'll never match the speed of the fish's thrust and speed out the front of the net, versus pushing the net ahead fast enough against the current in the river or against a moving boats drag pushing back against the bag of the net.

Looks like you and Mark had a great day on the water catching some quality fish. Nice job out there!

Thank's guys. Figuring out and catching these fish yesterday was a blast for sure. The fish we found were in isolated pockets on steep ledges, hanging in 16 to 18 FOW along these ledges, trapping or pushing baifish up agains't them. Catching these fish was/is a lot tougher then just finding them and then straight line trolling like we do on the bay. Either controlled depth jigging or precise contour trolling along these breaks with about 2 to 2 1/2 colors core, caught most of the fish. Ya know, jigging has always been my favorite way to catch river walleyes. But only getting a shock from an electrical outlet compares to the jolt of having walleye of this size nail your lead core rig while your holding the rod.:D

Me and Reel Fishin found some real dandys in the Saginaw River this morning. Big fish was 25 1/2 and the small one was 21. Caught them on everything from KnuckleBall Jigs and Gulp to trolling lead core using #5 Raps.

A good net man is as valuable IMV as anything else connected with fishing. Knowing when to net and how to net is a learned skill very much under rated and appreciated by people who think it's the easiest part of fishing. I'm not saying I'm the best net man, but pictured below is a double on walleyes I just finished netting. And have on rare occassion netted 3 walleyes in the same net. I attribute most of my netting skills to the 1,000 or so butterflies and flying grasshoppers I chased and caught with my dads landing net when I was growing up.

Welcome Bruce. So tell us, was it the refined walleye sections that finally landed you as an advertiser? :D

An interesting fallow up.

I would agree about the night vision of the walleyes,. Being from the West side I fish Muskegon lake after dark, and have seen big walleyes cought on 1 lure/color over another. It depends on water temp,clarity, barometric pressure,speed,lure/color choice and water conditions. I think the schools of bait fish available (and their size) at the time is a factor also. The above mentioned night conditions by Dan were right on and I fish 4-6 different lure/color combo's at the same time and only have 1 lure catch fish, Then switch every rod over to the hot lure and all catch fish.

We go out the next night same above mentioned conditions same program and not catch a fish until we change things up color,baits,speed....ect. The best lures for me are as follows...... Rapalas,Smithwick,Reef runners, Hotntots. Not in any favorite order. Last December-Mid January we were doing best on 3 ways..... Smithwick (clown) and stinger spoons(pink/orange) trolled @ 1.5/2.0 mph and cought allot of BIG walleyes. The year before that if I cought1-2 fish on the mentioned program I was lucky. I have allot of buds that fish Muskegon lake and we all run same program after dark that is the hot method going.

Al.

The 3 way rig being successful after dark kinda surprises me. Especially rigged behind such a shallow diving lure as a Rouge. What's the program when using this rig? How long of a lead from the 3 way swivel is both the crank and spoon? How fast is your trolling speed when using this rig? Does it vary (or need to) when fishing different depths? I thought about trying this on the Saginaw after dark, because of the several distinct sizes of the baitfish I see in the river. Using both the body bait and the spoon at the same time can cover two baitfish sizes, and hopefully duplicate the size they are zeroing in on that night. Capt. Dan.

Capt Dan,

It all depends on the area,depth,contour,break I'm fishing. I normally run a 4'-6' leader off of the snap swivel to the 3-way. I then a use a 6'-8' leader on the bottom (deep diving crank bait) and a 3'-4' leader on top (stinger spoon). I try to run the top 1/2 the length of the bottom so it doesn't tangle that much if at all.

The Smithwick (deep super rouge) I can get down 16'-18' with 140' behind the board

The Rapala( Deep husky jerk) I can get down the same with same line out as Rouge.

The Reef Runner (Deep diver) will go allot deeper @ 140' back about 26' to be exact.

The speed really is determined by the walleyes and the water temp. I normally try 1.8-2.5 mph and adjust from there. This method is a hard way to fish but is very productive when doing so. I have been doing this type of trolling for awhile now and it has worked out, But I have lost many rigs this way too. If your fishing any type of structure,reef,bars,breaks......ect you've

really got to be on your toes and watch your electronics. Al.

Don.

I really enjoyed our little chat on the phone last night, I'm glad you called.

I think we as charter boat fishermen and MCBA members have to stick together and help in any way we can. I know some are saying that their inspections were easier and different then this case. And that the difference between each inspector can vary. But we cannot stand by and accept that some of us are given a free and easy pass, while others in our organization are put threw the ringer for BS reasons. All inspection have too be fair across the board or the whole system will get tougher for all, or taken over by yet more burocracy. And I say if Don has a fair chance to stop this kind of crap through a law suite, we should get behind him both in our support and maybe monetarily if need be. Keep us posted on the prognosis of the case Don.

I have contacted the mcba and a lawyer i am in the process of getting letters to gather so i get things started. Hope to get things rolling at the end of Oct.

PS there is no double check system right now if the inspector says it is bad you have to fix it.

Question Don.

Did they come back and re-check the work after it was done? And if so, how fast after the work was done did they come back? And I don't know in what capacity I could help you, but I sure feel like doing so in some way to get this crap stopped right now. I'm going to at least write a letter to the MCBA and voice my concerns about this. I encourage anybody else who are MCBA members to do the same.

Answer to my inquiry.

Dan.

They need to get together and decide what type of question they want to ask or show up to the MCBA meeting in October and ask there own question.

If they are MCBA members and are having problems they should go to: http://www.fishmcba.com/aboutmcba.html

and contact the MCBA Director for there area, see map on home page: http://www.micharterboats.com

for area map and send them a email so they can represent them.

If they are not members of MCBA, then they have no bitch, they may be just a far left independent that should contact there Michigan congressman for help.

Overall, I've caught more walleyes at night both on the bay and the rivers using plain colored lures. My best nights on the Saginaw Bay are calm, clear nights during the first quarter moon. My best cranks on the Bay are large #18's Rapala's, fallowed closely by #14 Husky Jerks. Best clear night colors overall is the Natural Black top/White/Silver belly in the #18, and the Blue/Silver/Orange bottom in the husky. Cloudy nights are Firetiger and the Orange/Gold and Chartreuse/White.

All these are ran (most nights) very slow and very shallow, as slow as .08 and as short as 18 Feet behind the In-Line planer boards. Walleyes can see well in dim light, not only because they have lots of rods in their eyes, but because of the tapetum, a reflective layer of cells behind the cones that reflect light back toward the cones and that give the fish its characteristic creamy white glow. Walleye can see nine times better then the human eye in their environment and are built to forage at night. Along with that, their eyes (like a pike) are on top of their heads, so they naturally look up to see their prey silhouetted against any dim light on the surface. There are times when Glows work well though. I use them sometimes on the river at night, when the river is off-colored from run off. My favorite glow killer is a special #7 and #8 Green scale color/Red hooks, made especially for the Gander Mountain stores. My other favorite that catches them when the river waters are cleaner is one that Rapala don't make any more, called the Silver Shiner.

Another place to aire grivences would be at the annual MCBA meeting this October in Grand Rapids. The proper DNR people will be there to hear such things. I'm also working on getting a MCBA rep to both accept and possibly submit or read any grivences like this at this meeting to these people. If he agrees, I'll post his address here. Not sure it would carry the same weight, but it sure might if there were more then a few.

Brian.

So what is that Okuma reels address? I may be in the market for 10 new reels in the next summer season. I still like my BP Gold cups reels. But the 250 yards of junk line I need as filler, to fill the spool up to the filler mark is a pain in the azz. Looking for quality, smaller diametor reels with less line capacity.

I am not a walleye guy, but have a few questions of my own.

On Saginaw Bay are mostly fishing open water or are you relating to some sort of structure?

In the fall/winter on Muskegon Lake, are you targeting the drop offs, and whatever weedbeds you can find or are you fishing open water? Are you trolling with meat, body baits, or crankbaits?

Mike.

Here's a quote that might answer your Muskegon Lake question from MR. Muskegon Lake himself Mark Martin, when he did a fish chat for our members on my fishing board. For those who want more knowledge about both the bay and the Saginaw River walleyes, heres the link to both fish chats with Mark Martin and Gary Parsons. http://www.saginawbay.com/appiesboard/viewforum.php?f=20&sid=548ce794160ff618e4dbcb2a4281f85d

[Message] capt.dan -> Fish Chat: Last Question: Capt: Dan Question. Mark. Many of our younger members are not old enough to remember that before your Pro fishing career, that you guided at night on the Muskegon Lake for trophy walleyes. I'm curious to know what your biggest Muskegon lake walleye was over the years, what your most successful cranksbaits were during that time and if you still guide at night on the Muskegon Lake?

[Message] Mark Martin -> Fish Chat: The biggest walleye I caught was when I was twelve years old fishing at night just before Thanksgiving. It was a fourteen pound, one ounce eye. My best lures was when I fished with Grandpa and Dad were homemade imitation looking Rapalas. When I did most of my guiding I used pretty much number thirteen floating Rapala's with glow eyes and glow tails and prisom tape along the lateral line of the lure. That's my favorite and most successful lure. I've caught many other walleyes on Shad Raps, spoon bill rebels, bombers, and many other lures including hopkins spoons.

Hello all, Here is the set up. What do you suggest if I want to try for Walleye? Only ever fished for Salmon in Lake Michigan...I would like to try but don't want to put a whole lot of money into it...

2 Lead cores, 2 down riggers, 2 dipsey divers, 2 planar boards, j-plugs, flys, spoons, couple rapalas...Also have a couple bass rods...

Boat is out of Grand Haven and I have heard that Muskegon could be good for Walleye. Let me know about rigs, depth, speed, time of day and best time of year...What would you do????

Thanks.

Derek.

Adam did cover most of the basics very well. To cover everything would take a book size post. And your chances and success will be both better and easier if you fish Saginaw Bay versus Muskegon Lake for walleyes. Not saying Muskegon is not a fantastic fishery, but it's best fishing opportunities and productive windows are very much narrower then is Saginaw Bays. And keep in mind that walleye are very much a different animal then are salmon. Fishing walleyes during this colder then usual summer on the Bay stayed as productive longer in 5 FOW as it was in 25 FOW. Not really anything that revolutionary, but something that surprised a lot of us. Walleye un-like salmon are not locked into certain forage types nor any certain temperature zones, where most of their feeding takes place. They are however forage driven, but can and do feed comfortably on any forage living in 36 to 86 degrees water temps. This opens up the whole Bay and the entire water column during the summer to catch fish in. And you do not necessarily need to use Meat/crawlers and rigs, even though this method performed better this season even for me. You can use a variety of spoons and certain crankbait's virtually from spring into fall and catch walleyes on them in all depths. Doing so IMV reduces the equipment and many of the learning curves associated with live bait rigging, and is much easier and user friendly to beginners. Many of my best seasons ever were when trolling cranks from early May to late August, never once changing the lures I initially put on. The only variable was the speed and depths I trolled them in. When talking crankbait's, on the Muskegon Rapala's rule. On Saginaw Bay both Rattle Tots and Hot-N-Tot's rule.

Keep in mind that you are legally responsible for your boats wake and any damage or harm it causes to any person or property. Also know your boat and it's parameters well enough to know what speeds it throws the biggest wakes. I don't know how many times we've had a big boat coming at full speed towards us throwing a 1 foot wake, but then gets near us and slows down some, to then generate a 3 foot wake. The really sad part about this is most people associate going fast with bigger wakes. I've gotten the finger many times in my Jet Boat on the river knowing that by being on plane my boat only throws a ripple. Slow down and it throws a real roller.

Don.

I'm very sorry for the BS and loss of business you had to endure. I had the same experience. It took place on my very first dry dock inspection in 1996 from a new/untrained DNR guy on the job. Said my whole transom was rotten after he pushed an ice pick through a few layers of fiberglass from the inside. $5,000 later, the transom was found to be sound and the guy who fixed it said (if he wanted to) he could push an ice pick through any part of a sound/new boats hull. Later dry dock inspectors laughed at what he the new DNR guy did and how he did it. Seems the blunt end of a hammer or other tools should be used to press and check for strength of inner hulls, not a sharpe ice pick. I still don't find it funny at all. But I want to thank you for this post, as next year is my first scheduled dry dock inspection under the new rules and DNR contracted inspectors. I will stay very aware from where these so called experts are from, and see what I can do about any before and after dire diagnosis. One more thing. Did you report this inspector, along with his and your repair mans findings to the Coast Guard, DNR and the MCBA? If not, please do so for all our sakes.

Welcome Dave.

Sounds like our resumes are almost the same. I'm also working under my 5th Coast Guard license renewal and caught my first salmon below Tippy Dam in the fall of 1969. Guided on the upper PM for 15 years till 2001 and still occassionally run trips in your next of the woods (Indian Bridge down) for kings out of my Jet Boat. You'll find both knowledgable and helpfull people here on this board willing to share, without the snide remarks, belittlement and enuendo that so many others major in. And I know a man with your experience can only strengthen that knowledge base and our group.