WALRANGER5

This thread has brought out some good points. Everything is a delicate balance. The slot limit obviously would keep more large fish in the system. More large fish would feed on small walleye and perch. It is a balancing act and I'm feeling the Saginaw Bay is as good as it has ever been. We just came off one of the best perch years in recent history. The walleye fishery is fantastic. I know we can't ignore the Asian Carp threat but I still need convincing that a slot limit is the answer. We had different groups pushing for slot limits long before the Asian Carp came to our door. Some people want to see and catch a lot of big fish. I like it the way it is.

you'll find many examples, predators that disrupt the spawn is the key. Also (biotic resistance native predators) "control the spawn control the fish" Alewives have been proving this for 50 years. In Minnesota they found for the first 2 years after putting in a slot limit, there was 20-30% non-compliance, this tells 70-80% had no problem with it, the rest fell in later. A buddy a couple years ago told me this guy he knows went to Lake Erie 6 times put 966 Walleyes in the freezer. I have heard many such stories, this was the worst, I've heard the same stories about Saginaw Bay. Any restrictions on us, always benefits the fish. Canadian fly in lakes all have slot limits. A couple lakes in Canada, close every other year to give them a break. Throwing back some females doesn't seem that tuff to do. I've been playing catch and release for the last 5 years, Perch, Walleye, and Pike. I go inland for eating fish. Predators makes the entire body of water a control, how much control is determined by how many predators you have. We are not in danger of having too many native fish. Electric/bubbles/noise/light barriers will not stop the Asian Carp, a living predator barrier controls the fish! The FWS is planting Alligator Gar down south as predators for the carp, we don't need gar, just a high level of predators.

Some points to ponder. Asian carp not only eat zooplankton, they eat larval native fish. Perch and Walleye along with any pelagic (air bladder) fish is at risk. I have an E-mail from a Chinese expert that says this is so, and from Duanne Chapman the US Asian Carp expert, believes this is so as well, but Duane wants to do a study. Same thing the alewives were doing in Saginaw bay, but in a mega kinda way, they increased/stocked Walleyes/predators to get rid of the alewives, Walleyes surviving. We have the advantage of knowing the carp are coming. The reverse of what the alewives were doing, is native fish/predators doing it to the invasive species. Asian Carp have the same weak spot as any fish, surviving the spawn attempt. Once Asian Carp get too big, they can live 25+ years, feeding and waiting for the right time to spawn. The alewives kept the Walleye population in Saginaw knocked down for many years, because they had high numbers, and controled the spawn of it's competitor/predator. Any thing we can do to maintain high native fish/predator levels restricts any invasive species. Letting some big females go, seems a small price to control Asian Carp, or any invasive species. You still get to catch it, it gets to feed and breed another day! Fair trade. Asian Carp are a 100 pound zebramussel /alewife combo, there is no greater threat.

Good stewardship is truly what is all about. Personally I don't like targeting the big spawning females. I guess I'm old school and fish for fun and eats. I'd rather target walleye in the 17-24 inch range.

When it comes to perch fishing I will not sit and sort 100 fish to get 25. Out of the 75 fish returned the gulls get more than half of them. If I can sit on a good school of perch and keep at least half then I justify it in my own mind.

Like I said I'm old school. I do respect others rights to do as they see fit as long as it's within the law. Laws do change and sometimes they get too complicated.

I am not in favor of slot limits but I will keep an open mind on the subject. I have fished the Saginaw Bay since about 1950. I remember in the 80s when it was the norm to boat a couple of 8# fish and a small one was 24 inches. The pendulum swings. Back during that same period Lake Erie was loaded with dinks and I believe they reduced the size limit there to 13 inches. I believe they also had a 6 fish limit. I feel the Saginaw Bay is healthy. Why fix something that isn't broken?

The Carp issue needs to be dealt with quickly. I don't think the carp issue should be used to push for different programs such as slot limits.

After 7 years of research into asian Carp/invasive species problems/controls, we are our own worst enemy. History has shown us overfishing to be our primary problem, leading to the invasive mess/dominance we have today. Slot limits have been proven to protect spawning females, according to one study more eggs are natures safety factor, to overcome varibles in the system. Invasive species disrupt spawn attempts, recruitment. One Walleye over 23 inches, is simple, easy to understand and proven in Bay De Noc, to provide and maintain a quality healthy Walleye population. This does not reduce the limit it just makes us better stewards of the resource. We will need all the predators we can find, with the Asian Carp in the game. Barriers will not stop them, and ray guns and underwater goby cannons are a joke. We should also drop the Perch limit to at least 25, Lake Gogebic did this also to be better stewards of the resource, we are supposed to be good stewards of every fishery we have, not just here or there. I could catch and release 5 pound walleyes all day long, versus catching little or nothing, or getting smacked by flying Asian Carp. ( The novelty wears off fast, trust me, I've been to Illinois) Bottomline is what we've been doing isn't working. Waiting until Asian Carp get to 90% like they did with alewives, would be a bad thing. And they planted predators to control the alewives.

I got in on the GLMRIS conference call Jan 5th 2012, regarding shipping traffic in the Chicago canal. The cost of operating the electric Asian Carp barrier, breaks down to $22,727 dollars per day. Anything but separation means all taxpayers in the U.S. would be stuck paying this forever. Keep in mind this is only one barrier, they are proposing many across the country. Barriers do not reduce invasive species numbers, never will. Barrier control is stuck in one spot. Restoring native fish/predators turns the entire body of water into a control, that does reduce invasive species, and does not cost thousands of dollars a day to maintain!

Mabey we should privatize and go after the Asian Carp. Take the money that we pay the USFWS and give it to private companies through grant monies and within a few years multiple companies will have multiple stratagies to attack them. Using multiple stratagies will help deflate their population and make them less of a risk to the great lakes.

They just announced they wont speed up the studies now it's 2015 maybe early 2016. Google GLMRIS you'll find the site. They released inventory of available controls and are taking comments until Feb. 17th. Using predators fits thier criteria, and is listed as available. The barrier will stop nothing, please go to the comments and vote for using predators, tell all your friends and nieghbors! If you look at the whole picture, we have no choice, politics will not fix this problem!

Somebody needs to fire all of the brass at the USFWS every single one of them. When they are all fired replace them with people who want to get off of their *** and do something about asian carp. For the last 10 years and the next 30 years all the USFWS will do is eat up our $$$$ and study them. A first grader probably could tell you more about asian carp than anyone at the USFWS knows about them. Just like wolves lets see how many elk, moose, buffalo, and deer that they can wipe out. Meanwhile we will protect them and study them. Nobody in the United States has better job security than a USFWS employee. As long as there are wolves and asian carp their jobs are pretty safe. No worry if you are a USFWS employee millions of hunters, fishermen, and trappers will support you just keep studying. I will bet I have seen a hundred different clips on you tube of USFWS employees riding around in boats watching asian carp jump.

You are right, most of the "plans" seem include long term employment for someone, and high costs. Asian Carp doubled again last year, monitoring is just whoops there's another one, with no action. Please see my other post and search Biotic-resistance, we pay biologists to know this stuff, how can I find it, and they can't?

I've heard and seen more ideas on the invasive species here in this short blog, than any or all the news agencies combined over the last few years. You guys should be in charge of this problem, then I KNOW the problem would get fixed pretty soon. Thanks for the education and more to come I hope.

If I may encourage everyone to google (Biotic resistance on the increase native predators) Predator prey is good enough for me but biotic-resistance is bio speak. You will find we can control all invasive species with native predators. One paper states "We found strong evidence that native predators confer biotic-resistance that limits the distribution of an invasive species" and "strongly aligned with high densities of native predators" Includes zebra/quagga addressed in one paper. Please read this for yourselves. Also you may want to find (Asian carp in Wisconsin waters 1996-2011) this map shows the west side of Wisconsin they're screwed, we're next. Check the main Asian carp spread map, USGS, and remember there is only 2 points with a "barrier" to stop them. Barriers alone will not stop them, we can control how many predators they run into, which is the best long term defence we have. Native Predators or Biotic resistance is the only solution, to Bio pollution!

Asian carp were found in North Dakota a couple weeks ago, and now they found them past the Coon Rapids dam in Minnesota. The carp got past 9 dam/locks on the west side of Wisconsin, how they get in is moot, in is in. Lack of predators is what all the experts say happened, (overfishing the lake trout allowed the alewives etc.... ) But lake trout are not the only predator we have/had. Common carp control experts found out over the years, that after removal of carp regardless of how, poison netting etc... stocking of predators is essential to control young carp. The ones you miss spawn and they actually increase this is being proven in Illinois, with the asian carp. They took out 30 million pounds of carp last year, and they still doubled in population. Without predators or competition you just made a nice spawning/nursery area. Illinois has the largest Asian Carp population in the world, even tho they have been taking out millions of pounds. Having a high native fish/predator population makes the lakes resistant to invasive species. Lack of which gives us the invasive problems we have now, this is our fault. We need predators in the near shore spawning nursery areas, Perch walleye and other native fish fit this bill, and could be restored quite eaisly. There's tackle tax money we already paid for restoring native fisheries, obtaing permission that's another matter.

By all means stop the ballast problem. However long term it's what happens after they get in, whether ballast or swim in. Lack of predators allow invasive species to thrive, this is our fault. Lake Michigan is an invasive species factory, which is spreading invasives thru out the country. This is because it is managed as a saltwater fishery, thus invasive species are not threatened. This must change or we lose it all to the asian carp.

I just got back from Bath illinois, The Redneck Flyin Asian carp tournament. 203 boats caught 8,977 flyin carp 432 in 2 hours top boat. Thia area has been commercial fished for the last few years, yet there was more fish than i've ever seen. 6th trip down. There's a study that came out June 2011, Invasion and predation in aquatic systems Judith S. Weis, I believe you will find very interesting. We have native predators for baby Asian carp, several we just need more. As far as Alewives eating larval asian carp, if the carp spawn while alewives are in close during June spawn, they will probably eat some, but the during the other 3 or 4 spawns the Alewives and salmon will be out in the lake playing tag, while the carp will be safe. We need warmwater predators, for the nearshore spawning/nursery areas, neither salmon or alewives can even survive in there. This has allowed the other invasives to build thier numbers up to get the upper fin in the game if you will. I guarantee Perch and Walleyes will eat asian Carp. The Feds want money for rayguns and water cannons and studies?

Net them all, grind them up & use them as fertilizer. Isn't that what our ancestoral native Americans did with some fish?

About sixty percent of the Asian Carp produced in the US via fish culture operations are exported to the Asian community in the Toronto area. Asians prefer to purchase their fish alive and then prepare them for the table.'

Please keep one point in mind, Common Carp are not native to the Americas. They, too, were an imported species. Carp-Asian form or European- are excellent gill net avoiders. Gillnets catch fish by girth, consequently they are not species selective. The by-catch of a gill net set would likely decimate other fish populations at a faster rate because Silver and Big Head Carp are multiple spawners. Their reporductive rates would offset to some degree mortalities induced via a commercial fishery.

There is still one aspect of Great Lakes Community fish population structure that may offset Asian Carp proliferation. Alewife are particulate feeders. They eat larval fish as well as zooplankton, Diporeia, and Mysis diluviana. Cisco and Emerald Shiner stocks have recovered significantly in Lake Huron following the collapse of the Alewife population. If Asian Carp larvae have broad niche overlap with Alewife, I garantee you that they will be fed on by all fish larvae predators, including Alewife. Paricularly in a food energy starved system like the current Great Lakes.

Good job, I feel a road trip comin on! Any word out of Linwood? Sparkplug?

I'll be fishing the west side this weekend!! Hope she didnt muddy back up again!! I'll leave a report!

Scott

Thanks, I'll be alright, needed some shoveling anyway. Gonna take the Grandbaby out for Bluegills tommorow, eyes are kinda thin over here.

Was planning on coming over today, but my slot trench drain field flooded, grounds saturated. Pumped it out with the bilge pump from my litte boat 720 Gal hr. worked slick, got a couple days to dry it out and put it back together. Sounds like I'm safe waiting to maybe next week. Keep the reports coming.

i had quit fishing big water, then 2 years ago. my oldest son talked me and my wife into going to erie with them for vacation with him and his family. the point being was we took my 6 yr old grandson out, along with his half brother who got very sick. now he dont like it. but the 6 yr old is crazy about the whole thing. he loves catching he loves fishing and he just loves the run in and out. and he is so good about waiting his turn on the rod. and the look on his face when he gets a nice 6 or 8 pounder is in my mind for the rest of my life. i sure hope you dont feel like i stole your thread. just that i know what you have to look forward to. he is always ready to help with anything, he,s right there. what can i do. its just awesome to see a young one so interested in a good clean sport. as long as im able i,ll keep him involved in outdoor sports. hope you get to do alot of fishing with your 6 yr old. and i am sorry her big trip turned out as bad as it did. but it sounds like you guys know how to make the best of a bad day.

sherman

The bay has slowed down the water cleared up and the fish moved. I was fishing the mudline out of sebewaing in 12 to 14 feet of water but now u can c the bottom in 12 foot which isnt good for walleye fishing. We were limiting out every trip until wensday, we only got 9 wensday , 5 thursday and 2 friday. it looks like the weather is gonna keep me off the bay until the middle of next week so ill keep evertone posted.

My buddy says when the wind was bad north east, he went to Augres calm water caught fish. Does this trick work? Whats the best launch. I've only fished out of Linwood, haven't had to go anywhere else.

Tom, welcome to the site.

Some of my best memories where fishing with my grandpa.

Just got back from the bay, couldn't get out Sat or This Morning. Wind took out power and blew the Motel sign down (Northland) Saturday, wind was trying to knock me down in the parking area at Linwood Beach, Granddaughter hanging on to trailor hitch. We'll be back. Still had fun, Grandaughters first big trip, ( 6 year old) She loves fishin.