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Killin' It

AM tournements

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If a lower entry fee is the answer, why don't more teams fish the league tournaments? Better yet, why don't they fish multiple leagues?

spot on with this comment..mscst,wmfl and soho league all struggle to get 10-15 boats an event

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Don, The Musk trip port is on the list of maybes this year because of that reason.

The reason the smaller events are 10-15 boats is simple, no advertising, shops promoting, ect.

OTW... I never said they were pocketing the money, I was just asking a simple question of where does the money go. I understand that its all volunteer and those people are greatly appreciated.

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The cost of running a small tournament is not cheap Don and I have spent our own money every year to put on the MSCST tournaments. There is the cost of the Website,the scales, flyers, gas to go to meetings with each other and sponsors, tons of things you can't even put a dollar value on. Then there is the legal advice you need liability issues and such. The hundreds of hours spent dealing with things like sponsors and delivering flyers. That is just for our small tournament in a larger event you have insurance, tents chairs and tables, advertising, more of everything.

If had to put a number on it I would bet the 1st 200 bucks per boat is in tourney cost. I looked into insurance for our tourney back in 09 and the best deal I could get for limited coverage was over 45 bucks per boat. That would not cover spectators at weigh in just the boats while fishing and only member boats and damage cause by them.

There is more to running a tournament than just a group of guys shaking hands and throwing money in a hat.

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Matt...

I feel for the pro's and that god awful amount entry fee.

Honestly I would rather find out who the best is by KISS (Keep it simple stupid)

2 days

3 fish (333 style)

1 entry fee (100-150) dollars

90-100% payout 10% to season winner(I understand trophies cost money but not that much) average of best 3 scores.

No divisions

Come get some!

Pros' date=' AM, Weekend warrior,

Winner takes all 150 bucks a boat * 60 boats (about what Holland had in 2014) $9000 in total money. if 100% payout.

If some of these teams are as good as they say.... well prove it...

Back to the main point... no one can explain why the AM side costs so much....

BBQ lunch??

Shirts??

Trophies??

I would rather the boy scouts sold hot dogs and beer at least then a good cause is getting my money.[/quote']

You could always start a new tournament circuit based on your beliefs. I'm not trying to bash you but everyone has thier beliefs how a tournament should be run. I personally don't fish tournament as I believe I fish against the fish every time I go out.

I know a lot of very good fisherman who don't fish tournaments because they don't have the need to prove thier the best and enjoy fishing for what it is.

Just like all things in life you can ask 10 people how they would run a tournament and get 10 different answers.

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I was just asking a simple question of where does the money go. I understand that its all volunteer and those people are greatly appreciated.

2013 BRC total AM payouts = $10,810. Divide by 42 AM boats = $257.38. Entry fee was $250 (not including big fish).

I did the same thing for 2013 Ludington and got $244.83 per boat (AM only). I couldn't find the entry fee for that one but I think some of the entry fees to go the big fish division, which has substantial payouts.

The only other one I looked at was Grand Haven and they don't list payouts. Not sure if any of the others do.

Is there a specific tournament(s) that you're referring to where you see a problem?

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I was just doing the same calc as money pit on the payout, was actually surprised to see they paid out more than the total of the entry fees at the big red. Factoring in the dinner and lunches, slip discounts, etc, it's really not a bad deal at all.

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Is there a specific tournament(s) that you're referring to where you see a problem?

I didn't see a problem in the math, the math adds up. I checked it long before I brought it up...

What I stated was " I was just asking a simple question of where does the money go" This is somewhat misleading of my own question.

Maybe It should have been whats the point?

Fishy, You have a valid point, I could start my own event or series of events, but that would divide a small population even more, which defeated the purpose.

Jim, I will not get into a liability discussion, I see your point, but your math does not add up if your looking at the payouts vs money taken in for the Holland event. 100% payout based on amount of boats.

none the less guys, I was just throwing it out there the question of why does the AM side cost what it does for an armature event. MOST of us do not fish for the money, but the bragging rights of beating others at any given day.(And maybe a cool trophy or two)

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Would I/you rather fish against 50 boats at $250 entry fee, or 120 boats at $100? Same take, and pay out for both.

I would rater pay the extra $150 and eliminate the 70 boats.

Nailer, I am the other way around.. I would rather fish me vs the world, because it does not change what I am going to do.

Edited by Killin' It

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We are talking about entering the big red this year, I understand what you are saying about say cutting the entry in half (like 250 to 125) and trying to double the number of boats. I think the reason you don't see that comes down to logistics, if they can pay the same amount out with 50 boats instead of 100, and thus only need to have volunteers to weigh 50 coolers or pay for 50 teams meals.

To set up a tourney I think you would decide how many boats you can support, then max out the entry fee until you only have 10% extra entries on a waiting list

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Is there a specific tournament(s) that you're referring to where you see a problem?

I didn't see a problem in the math' date=' the math adds up. I checked it long before I brought it up...

What I stated was " I was just asking a simple question of where does the money go" This is somewhat misleading of my own question.

Maybe It should have been whats the point?

Fishy, You have a valid point, I could start my own event or series of events, but that would divide a small population even more, which defeated the purpose.

Jim, I will not get into a liability discussion, I see your point, but your math does not add up if your looking at the payouts vs money taken in for the Holland event. 100% payout based on amount of boats.

none the less guys, I was just throwing it out there the question of why does the AM side cost what it does for an armature event. MOST of us do not fish for the money, but the bragging rights of beating others at any given day.(And maybe a cool trophy or two)[/quote']

Dave the numbers may be off some but the point I make is that much of that cost is absorbed by sponsor contributions. The cheapest insurance I could find when Don and I started MSCST was 650 bucks with a 25 boat max since we avg 15 boats that would be over 45 per boat. I did not get quotes for a larger event we decided to run without and just have waivers signed. This is not a business if it was it would be a huge loser that is however not the point never was I hope it never will be. Lots of things go into sponsoring a major event one of which is local revenue and bringing a lot of people into town for most of a week helps the entire town so many local merchants help with expenses. Marina's rent slips hotels rent rooms restaurants sell to more customers so often the tourney itself is only a small part of the deal at least in terms of money to the port. Another thing is the Tournament Trail has it's own revenue stream they bring in plus they have their own sponsors as well. Many ports like Muskegon turn the day one catch over to local food banks which is another value to the port and it's people. The list just grows as volunteers often donate more than just their time.

Years ago I used to complain about them but the fact is they are a great deal for everyone. And nothing much we can do will replace the feeling when you hear the start from the helm of your boat and it is on.

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My first post in this thread about the comfort level had to do with all aspects of some of these tourneys. Obviously I wouldn't be comfortable either shelling out a house payment to play a game. If the entry is too high don't play. People vote with their money. If no one sits at the $25 table it soon becomes a $10 or a $5 table. Just the way these old eyes see it.

Everyone looks at things differently and I respect everyone's views. :)

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I rather go fishing 4-5 times more per season than pay $200 to fish a tournament. To me that's a no-brainer. I can't catch 12 fish anyways so not that it really matters to me. The local tournament does have a one day $100 shoot out. That I might join once I learn how to catch 12 fish. Now, if the 333 had an amature division where you didn't have to join the host tournament that was CHEAP. I'd definitely do that when the tournament was in town. I can catch 3 fish over 2 days(maybe!). But go up against those pro's in the 333... No thanks.

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dave most of these tourneys have captains dinners ,goodie bags ,shirts,food,beer,building rentals ect. during the tourney and pretty good payouts if it were just sign up and fish I couldn't see the entries being so high but as a board member of the steelheaders I see all the cost that go into theses tourneys and entrie fees alone will not pay the bills most of the time. jimmy

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I think it comes down to pay for how you want to play. If you want to play for higher prize payouts, you're going to have to pay more to get in. The big tournaments have higher entry fees but have high payouts going down the leaderboard with multiple place payouts. Anglers also have the lower cost options of the local fishing league tournies with low entry fees but correspondingly low winning payouts/prizes. You can go where your budget and desire wants to take you.

The current model and fee structure for the big tournaments seems to work since they keep holding them and are successful.

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I rather go fishing 4-5 times more per season than pay $200 to fish a tournament. To me that's a no-brainer. I can't catch 12 fish anyways so not that it really matters to me. The local tournament does have a one day $100 shoot out. That I might join once I learn how to catch 12 fish. Now, if the 333 had an amature division where you didn't have to join the host tournament that was CHEAP. I'd definitely do that when the tournament was in town. I can catch 3 fish over 2 days(maybe!). But go up against those pro's in the 333... No thanks.

Dan,

I also do not have the ability at this point in my fishing "career" to catch 12 fish, am I working on it, yes. I don't know what your home port is but that's all that my team and I do is 333 with the occasional big fish fee. That is the level set it puts you even up with pros. It is an incredible feeling to see your name above boats/teams you have considered to be top notch. And you only pay usually $150 and get the whole tourney atmosphere. Someday when I get the nerve I will enter an AM because for some reasons those tourneys even if 333 only are like a drug I cant get enough of.

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Dave,

I like the point you brought up here, and i agree with it in some ways. I REALLY prefer there to be more of a separation in Pro division vs Amateur divisions.(Rules as well as payouts).

I truly believe that a payout scale that DOES NOT payout 20 places would really help the amateur side. I feel as if it's a children's softball game. EVERYONE GETS A TROPHY! WOO. Not. Come on, its grown men competing. I feel as i don't deserve a dime if i finish 20th out of 60 boats.

This is where the big red really ticks me off. Having the same rule set for both divisions, just different entry and different payout scales. Although, the rule thing is a completely different subject.

My point is, rather than trying to split up the money with all the competitors at the end, make it possible to actually cover expenses, by paying more money to less places.

Then again, i don't support a single tournament that doesn't use observers.

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My point is, rather than trying to split up the money with all the competitors at the end, make it possible to actually cover expenses, by paying more money to less places.

The way I see it, I'd be fishing whether the tournament was on or not. My only added expense is the entry fee. I wouldn't want to get a payout for finishing 25th out of 50 either. Certainly, if the payout were less than the entry fee, pay less places with more money. Nothing wrong with breaking even.

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Come fish the Steeelheaders challenge in may Dave, its a great tourney and we would like to see you stop whining and perform under some pressure

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Ryan,

I would love to come fish the steelheaders challange in may, however I am fishing another tournement that day.

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