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So..... Call me a sheep if you want, but I have been reading Keeting on kings-

I am 60 pages in or so and he talks alot about bottom structure and so on. I know I have found 2 spots with a random "hump" but nothing else from PS to Saugatuck.

I would assume that My graph is outdated and this could be part of the problem.

Does anyone else have these type of spots marked in the GPS or do most of you fish the Thermocline?

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For what it's worth I hear there is a lot more structure on the WI side of the lake where Dan fishes than the MI side. From what I've heard from others, most are fishing temp breaks on your side of the lake.

Yes that ^^^

That part of his book isn't a big factor here in W.M.

There is a bit of a break when you come out of Port Sheldon, and go south. It starts in 70 fow.

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If you start looking at Manistee ,Ludington,and Frankfort. These sharp dropoffs are key areas that hold baitfish, predator fish, and fisherman too. In St Joseph I have an area where it drops off considerably faster than the rest of the area (it is really not a drop off just drops quicker than most the rest of the area). Thats about a three mile circle area that usually has fish. I dont know if that has to do with current though. The best idea is to write down which areas hold fish in which wind direction. Log books suck (especially when you get a triple) but IMHO are worth every bit of trouble. P.s. I must be a sheep too cuz I read that, Great lakes trout and salmon trolling,all five critical concepts walleye books,and a couple others EVERY winter. The key is to try different things and figure out what works in YOUR program.

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So..... Call me a sheep if you want, but I have been reading Keeting on kings-

I am 60 pages in or so and he talks alot about bottom structure and so on. I know I have found 2 spots with a random "hump" but nothing else from PS to Saugatuck.

I would assume that My graph is outdated and this could be part of the problem.

Does anyone else have these type of spots marked in the GPS or do most of you fish the Thermocline?

Keep reading Dave , he will explain in more detail what to look for. I just finished his second book , he will explain about the structure and how large of an area it is . Its not like inland lakes where the structure is obvious. The structure out on lake Michigan can cover a mile . and you may not even notice it. and the currents play a big role in the structure also. I don't know what type of structure you have but take a look at the charts. I dont know where you are at but if you want to look at our structure look at chart #14904 , it does not have the contour lines . for that you could look at Lake Michigan Bathymetry http://map.ngdc.noaa.gov/website/mgg/greatlakesbathy/viewer.htm

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Dave you'll notice your way points will start to gather in certain areas.

When I look at my waypoints out of Port sheldon they start to tell a story. Like others have said keep a log and study the contours and some things might start to match up. I found the area Ken is talking about by accident after noticing a cluster of waypoints. There are also several North of PS. This spring during Brown blast we found a ten foot drop off in 28 feet of water down by cook. Every time we hit the shelf we popped a laker. There are other areas north of Muskegon where some humps are consistant producers. I'm a big believer in bottom changes by us holding fish. And like others have said I believe it has to do with currents

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Until last year, I had a very small boat fishing out of Holland and tended to stay in closer than other boats most of the time. I have read that book several times and agree, there is not much structure around here that is obvious.

However, I noticed when you are running out of Holland (especially at a slower speed) it stays approx. 50feet for a very long time. I have fished right where it starts to gradually drop off from that depth and done well a number of times while everyone else is out much deeper.

I have also talked to several others over the last few years who have "hot spots" relating to a flat, a slight drop, or rise, etc...

Anyway, from what I remember about the book the structure he talks about is very subtle. I am not sure I have ever really had a graph good enough to keep track of this, but have one picked out & I am hoping arrives before spring:D

Good Luck!

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Dave you'll notice your way points will start to gather in certain areas.

When I look at my waypoints out of Port sheldon they start to tell a story. Like others have said keep a log and study the contours and some things might start to match up. I found the area Ken is talking about by accident after noticing a cluster of waypoints. There are also several North of PS. This spring during Brown blast we found a ten foot drop off in 28 feet of water down by cook. Every time we hit the shelf we popped a laker. There are other areas north of Muskegon where some humps are consistant producers. I'm a big believer in bottom changes by us holding fish. And like others have said I believe it has to do with currents

I just pulled up my waypoints from last year some of the tracks and points are so tight together. In a 1/4 mile area there can be as many as 10 points.

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Dave,

you will find areas that hold fish around Holland all the tiime there isnt lots of structure but there is subtle differences in bottom make up ,sand,mud,and clay ect . South of holland there is a 50' deep troth that has a very nice inside corner on it and north of tunnel there is a spot where the water inlet for the water treatment plant is this has some structure but most imoportantly it draws in cold water off the bottom.also in this area if you go to 50 fow there is a nice drop off and under water point that fish love to hang on you hit this point going south and go on a south east troll and follow into near shore,north of portsheldon there is another troth Im not 100% were this one is at but i have been on it. Mainly you just need to keep marking your way points as you catch fish and you will find these spots to be consistant.I just have a hand held gps and have been using it for 10 yrs now and I now have spots that i just motor to and start getting fish without having to look all day for them. Also network...network...network get info and share info and it will help you find spots but this needs to be a two way street nobody likes to to give info but not get any in return theres lots of fish out there the only time it may be hard or not apropriatiate to give and share info is during tourney times you know how that goes. Just my two cents worth. I have got some software i bought a few years ago that shows botton contour there inst much till you go northwest out out of Holland 31 miles then there is a very nice drop off in 350 to 450 fow but thats way farther than i will go to fish! Jimmy

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I guess we're pretty much spoiled up north from Pentwater to Manistee, especially Ludington's Big Point Sauble. Talk about structure and drop offs! If you've never fished up here, try it, you'll like it. And btw, I've traveled most of the west side of the lake in Wisconsin waters, I do feel WE have the better structure for fishing.

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Sorry guys, my comment wasn't an attempt to put down the fishery on the Michigan side. Unfortunately, I have never even had the opportunity to fish Lake Michigan from the east side. I only heard that MI had less obvious structure than say the Kenosha, WI area that has very obvious dropoffs known as The Hills. I am glad that lots of you chimed in to correct my comment and show that there is plenty of structure to fish on your side of the lake.

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Sorry guys, my comment wasn't an attempt to put down the fishery on the Michigan side. Unfortunately, I have never even had the opportunity to fish Lake Michigan from the east side. I only heard that MI had less obvious structure than say the Kenosha, WI area that has very obvious dropoffs known as The Hills. I am glad that lots of you chimed in to correct my comment and show that there is plenty of structure to fish on your side of the lake.

Phil, you where correct in your statement. In the West Mi. ports where op (Dave) fishes. We have way less than your side. Now up North along the points, it's very sharp!

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Thanks all for the come backs on this thread.

Jimmy, I pulled out my GPS and looked at the waypoints from my first summer on the lake. I have 2 major piles of "hook ups" South of Holland in that 50-70 fow area. I know I started down that way 60% of the time this summer for that reason.

I went down that way one morning after talking to Ken who was KILLING the fish inside north of Holland. The problem with that morning was 30 boats were all over each other in that small area. I said the heck with it pulled everything and RAN south. ended up 5-7 down there. (which is good for me)

I know alot of the perch guys run half way to Saugatuck from holland some days when the bite is slow in the hole north of the pier, I have never looked around that area. Does it have a creek or something that comes into the lake>??

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I have found over the years that I will catch many more fish by keying on and working structure than trying to just find pods of fish and staying with them. I should say up front that I spend probably upwards of 90% of my time fishing Frankfort which is LOADED with structure. I've fished out of St. Joseph a few times and for me, it can be a little tougher to find fish. Down there I find myself concentrating on the thermocline and just trying to cover as much water as possible.

If you were to overlay my gps waypoints over a bathygraph chart of the Frankfort area, you will definitely see a direct correlation between fish marks (I mark every bite I get on gps) and some type of structural bottom element. Late morning offshore bumps in 200 -300' have become my bread and butter the last few years. Early and late I tend to look for hooks and bends in the "shelf" (fast dropoff parallel to shore) and concentrate my attention in these areas. My theory on these bends is that the predator fish tend to herd the baitfish into these "box canyons" if you will.

I guess I have taken my love for deer hunting and applied the strategies to salmon fishing. When I am setting up a treestand for bowhunting, I tend to look at the lay of the land because I know that the deer use edges and funnels when they move. Feeding deer in farm country can be most anywhere in a field, but the typically use concentrated entry points into the field. A buck looking for does during the rut will use cover and edges during the day while traveling around. Same thing applies to salmon. I can burn up a pile of gas searching for salmon feeding scattered over a large featureless 120' flat (deer in beanfield), or I can find a small reef in the middle of this flat that always seems to have a few fish (predators and bait) that relate to it and concentrate my efforts in this small area (funnel). Now find a couple of these humps and get them locked into your gps and you will be on to something.

I use this method most of the time unless I happen to hit one of those days when the feedbag is really on and all you have to do is find the right depth to get into the fish. Since these days or periods of days are short or inconsistant, learning to find and work structure will really help extend productive fishing hours and put many more fish in the cooler, especially on those days that everybody seems to be struggling finding the fish. The other huge advantage for me is that I don't have to be on the water at 4:30 AM (though I usually am). The last few years, my best times for fish per hour of trolling has been 9:30 AM - 12:30 PM and then from 4:00 PM - 7:00PM. Makes it nice if I have novices with me who just aren't real sure about heading out into the blackness before dawn. We can wait for light and I'm still confidant we'll pop some fish even if we missed the magic hour of first light.

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Great thread!! I updated my gps/fishfinder SMS can now find some structure. Most of it is like they said, patterns of long flat, followed by a drop... I have heard about the trenches Jim mentioned but have yet to find them. I must say I caught triple my amount of fish this year strictly due to the connections I have made from this site. You guys are great at sharing info and tactics... Thank you!

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Jimmy, how far out is the ship wreck ( Crane and barge ) that is out in front of the north end of Oval beach. I see it in my book and have looked for it a few times when I was out that way.

Do you think it has created some type of "reef" or is all just covered with sand by now.?

I have been reading this book and I have 1000 new ideas to try and its months away:(

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Jimmy, how far out is the ship wreck ( Crane and barge ) that is out in front of the north end of Oval beach. I see it in my book and have looked for it a few times when I was out that way.

Do you think it has created some type of "reef" or is all just covered with sand by now.?

I have been reading this book and I have 1000 new ideas to try and its months away:(

Dave are you familiar with the charts that are available on line? In the heading on top follow the Nautical charts , from there look up the great lakes and it will show you every chart available for the great lakes. If you do some searching you can even download the chart and print it . I don't know how computer savvy you are so let me know if I can be any more help. I did highlight the area and circle it.

wrek.jpg

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Dave are you familiar with the charts that are available on line? In the heading on top follow the Nautical charts , from there look up the great lakes and it will show you every chart available for the great lakes. If you do some searching you can even download the chart and print it . I don't know how computer savvy you are so let me know if I can be any more help. I did highlight the area and circle it.

wrek.jpg

You can even put those charts on a laptop and use it as a chartplotter GPS. They are handy on a PC also just for planning purposes.

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Jim, there are a few different programs out there for GPS navigation. Once you have the program you can download different charts off the internet for free. Then get yourself a gps puck for your computer and your set. Take a look at the Sea Clear software, you can download it for free online. I believe this is the program that Frank has.

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Jim, I ran SeaClear and NOAA charts all last year on a refurbished Panasonic Toughbook. SeaClear is free software that works well. Here is a thread that started about this time last year and went for 13 pages. Yes I run an external GPS that has a USB connection. The GPS is a Globalsat and was about $35. This GPS is about the size of a pocket watch and works even in a steel building.

http://www.greatlakesfisherman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16411&highlight=SeaClear

Here is a screen shot of the program.

<a  href=%7Boption%7Dhttp://www.greatlakesfisherman.com/gallery/files/8/7/seaclear_noaa.jpg' alt='seaclear_noaa.jpg'>

If you have any specific questions or need any help just holler.

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